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Main => Help Me => Topic started by: RichieD on November 28, 2012, 05:56:00 PM

Title: Table Balancing - Player Movement - random??!
Post by: RichieD on November 28, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
I presume the player(s) chosen for automatic table balancing are random?

I've had a couple of occasions where for a whole tournament, when TD re-balances tables it consistently chooses the same player to move tables! - it's become a bit of a laughing point, as soon as the same person gets chosen twice in a row.. you can almost guarantee that he/she will be moving around the card room for the whole night!!!

Anyone else seen this? or found a way of avoiding the situation?
Title: Re: Table Balancing - Player Movement - random??!
Post by: Stuart Murray on November 28, 2012, 08:32:05 PM
Can you not move the next big blind instead which keeps within current rule trends and then drag and drop the moved player manually? That's what I do, you can still use the computer suggestions for a breaking table, to keep things easy.

Title: Re: Table Balancing - Player Movement - random??!
Post by: Corey Cooper on November 29, 2012, 11:30:35 AM
Player movement is only partially random.

When the tables are out of balance, first the software determines how many tables are needed.  If necessary, it will break one or more down.  Instead of choosing which table(s) to break down, it instead decides which tables should be in play based on size of the table, number of players currently seated at tables (to prevent breaking down full or nearly full tables), and your Collapse Tables settings.  Randomness is introduced only when there's a choice between two or more tables that are considered "equal".  For example, if you've got 25 players sitting at 4 tables of 8 seats each and someone busts out, the software has to determine which table to break down.  It is biased towards tables in the "Collapse these tables last" section of the "Collapse Order" dialog, tables with more seats than other tables, and tables with more players than other tables.  So in this scenario, your players would likely be sitting 6, 6, 6, and 7.  If someone busts out of one of the tables with 6 players, the choice is easy because that table will have 5 players left and the software should pick that table to be broken down, resulting in fewer players that have to move.  But if someone busts out of the table with 7 players, now you have 4 "equal" tables, and the software will choose one of them at random to be broken down.

When the software only has to move a player, not break down a table, the process is very similar.  It first tries to determine a set of "movable" players, based on a set of criteria, such as at what table players are seated, at which seat they are seated, how many times they've already moved (to try to prevent one player from moving more often than other players), and where the dealer button is.

If you're placing the dealer button, then you are taking 99% of all randomness out of the table balancing, because the software will try to move a player such that he/she will be in the same position with respect to the deal as they were on the previous table.  If you have 2 tables of 8 players, and you've set the dealer button, and a player busts out on one table, there is only *one* choice for player movement: the player on the other table who is the same number of seats away from the dealer as the player who busted out.

If you continue to see the same player moved more often than other players, I would see if the dealer button has been set (you may not want to set the dealer button) or if you've got a Collapse Order defined.

If you have a saved tournament where the same player was moved more often than other players, send it to me (  I'd like to take a look.

FYI, you can see how many times a player has moved on the Players tab by double-clicking a player.  It's the last item in the Status section (in version 3; it's somewhere in the Status section in version 2).
Title: Re: Table Balancing - Player Movement - random??!
Post by: RichieD on December 02, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Thanks Corey for such a complete answer  :) - I'll email you the tournament the next time I see the scenario.