Author Topic: Bounties and Prizes issue  (Read 1813 times)

Blind Joe

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Bounties and Prizes issue
« on: December 19, 2020, 05:44:36 PM »
Used TD for the first time last night and ran into my first issue. Basically the summary and stats pages don't seem to be adding the bounties to the prizes correctly.

Info
Buy-in: 15
Bounty: 5
Rebuys: allowed. 15, no bounty included, limited to 1 player each.
Prizes: 1st 60% - 2nd 30% - 3rd - 10%

Prize pot: 215
Bounty pot: 45

1st won 4 bounties and kept his own
2nd won 1 bounty
3rd won 3 bounties

The Prize panel displays the correct prize money:
1st = 215 * 0.6 = 129.00
2nd = 215 * 0.3 = 64.50
3rd = 215 * 0.1 = 21.50

With the bounties that should be
1st = 129 + 25 = 154.00
2nd = 64.50 + 5 = 69.50
3rd = 21.50 + 15  = 36.50

However, the summary and stats pages show the following payouts:
1st: 169.00
2nd: 64.50
3rd: 26.50

So the software didn't award any bounties to 2nd place, only 1 bounty to 3rd place and 8 to 1st place.

What am I missing or doing wrong?

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 12:21:35 AM »
Player bounty chips are not computed as prizes.  They are added to each player's winnings.  But I understand the issue.  Without seeing the tournament itself, I don't know how we can figure out what's going on.  Care to post it?  Or, if you'd prefer, you can email it directly to me (support@thetournamentdirector.net).

Blind Joe

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 07:47:49 AM »
Player bounty chips are not computed as prizes.  They are added to each player's winnings.  But I understand the issue.  Without seeing the tournament itself, I don't know how we can figure out what's going on.  Care to post it?  Or, if you'd prefer, you can email it directly to me (support@thetournamentdirector.net).

Yes, sorry if I've not explained it properly or used the wrong terminology (I'm brand new to TD), the prizes are calculated correctly (total pot * 0.6, etc) and show correctly in the Prizes Tab.

Something is going wrong when the bounties are added to the player's prize. For example, the winnings for 3rd should have been 10% of the prize pot of 215 (21.50) + 3 bounties worth 5 each (15) making a total of 36.50, but the Summary Tab and the Stats tab say 26.50 - only 1 bounty has been added to his prize money. 2nd place won 1 bounty but didn't get any added in his winnings, while 1st place had 5 bounties including his own but got 8 added in his winnings. I can't see a pattern  ???

I'll email you the tournament. Thanks for looking into it for me.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 09:48:40 PM »
No worries.  Here's what I see.  1st place won 7 bounties.  2nd place won no bounties.  And 3rd place won 1.  1st place also won an additional $10 prize (Jank'n'5).  So 1st place got $129 plus $35 for bounties + $5 for his own bounty that no one else won + $10 additional prize, for a total of $179 (you listed it showed $169 in your first post but I don't see that anywhere).  2nd place got $64.50 from winning 2nd place.  3rd place got $21.50 from 3rd place prize plus $5 for winning 1 bounty.

If any bust-outs were done incorrectly, or players rebought and purchased a second bounty chip (I don't see any in the tournament that did - bounty chips were only purchased on initial buy-ins), those mistakes can easily be corrected.

Here are some things to do to see the details a little more clearly:

- On the Players tab, press the Preferences button, then press the Edit Columns button.  Here you can add or remove various columns, some of which will definitely be helpful to see (like "Bounties Won" or "Bounty Winnings" or "Prize Winnings" or "Bounties Kept", etc).

- Also on the Players tab, edit a player by double-clicking the player.  Scroll down and look at the various sections, such as Bounties, Winnings, and Income.  The Income section will enumerate all money the player won.  The History section at the bottom will also break out those details, such as showing exactly who the player busted out and when, and whether or not they paid for a bounty chip at buy-in and/or rebuys.

You can actually adjust details in the History section.  You can edit the buy-in, or a rebuy, or create new rebuys or add-ons.  If players have been busted out incorrectly, you can undo bust-outs and redo them, and use the "Adjust Rankings" button on the Players tab to arrange the bust-outs in the correct order.

Blind Joe

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 02:48:14 AM »
No worries.  Here's what I see.  1st place won 7 bounties.  2nd place won no bounties.  And 3rd place won 1.  1st place also won an additional $10 prize (Jank'n'5).  So 1st place got $129 plus $35 for bounties + $5 for his own bounty that no one else won + $10 additional prize, for a total of $179 (you listed it showed $169 in your first post but I don't see that anywhere).  2nd place got $64.50 from winning 2nd place.  3rd place got $21.50 from 3rd place prize plus $5 for winning 1 bounty.

Ok, so I'm really confused. This is a quote (with names edited) from the summary that includes every player elimination:

Quote from: The Summary
21:02:47 18/12/2020: "Donkey" was busted out by "The Roofer"
...
22:55:40 18/12/2020: "The Rebuyer" was busted out by "The Roofer"
23:06:22 18/12/2020: "The Hitman" was busted out by "God Mode"
23:10:54 18/12/2020: "No Limit" was busted out by "The Roofer"
23:23:11 18/12/2020: "Blind Joe" was busted out by "Nine-Ten"
23:40:56 18/12/2020: "The Snowman" was busted out by "God Mode"
23:52:52 18/12/2020: "The Roofer" was busted out by "God Mode"
0:03:20 19/12/2020: "Nine-Ten" was busted out by "God Mode"
0:03:20 19/12/2020: Tournament ended
0:03:20 19/12/2020: Total pot: £225.00
0:03:20 19/12/2020: "God Mode" ranked 1st, received £179.00 and 24.00 points
0:03:20 19/12/2020: "Nine-Ten" ranked 2nd, received £64.50 and 16.00 points
0:03:20 19/12/2020: "The Roofer" ranked 3rd, received £26.50 and 18.00 points

All the bounty numbers are wrong from my POV, but let's just look at 2nd place (Nine-Ten). You say he won no bounties but as you can see, at 23:23:11 he busted me out and eliminated me from the tournament so he took my bounty. Am I misunderstanding how bounties work (I don't play them that often) or is something glaringly wrong here?

Thanks for the other info, that's certainly very useful for future use, but I still need to wrap my head around why the bounties weren't calculated as I'd expect them to be.

Also, I'm not sure what's going on with those time stamps because I'm pretty sure heads up didn't last 3 hours :o, but that's a separate issue and quite possibly something I've done at my end.

PS I've run a couple of other test tournaments using the default game that loads up when you startup TD, only changing the buy-in, rebuy and bounty details along with making the payout spots the top 3. I bought players in, did a few busts and rebuys, then did all the bust-eliminations until we had a winner. The results were all over the place, eg one player who hadn't eliminated anyone and finished outside of the money had 10 winnings  ???
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 03:03:13 AM by Blind Joe »

Blind Joe

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 04:19:13 AM »
Just spotted your email reply to me Corey, so as I said I'll post my thoughts here so that this part of the discussion remains public.

Your email got me thinking that TD awards bounties per bust rather than per elimination. That seems to be the most simple way to put it. Is that correct?

If so, that's why I'm not getting the calculations I expect, as we do it differently: Bounties are only taken from eliminated players and given to the player who eliminated them.

Each player purchases a single bounty chip with their initial buy in and only gives it up when they are eliminated from the tournament to the player who eliminates them. Each player can rebuy once during the first 6 levels but if they do rebuy they retain their bounty rather than lose it and purchase another.

In other words, if you are busted in Level 3 and choose to rebuy you keep your bounty chip. If you are busted again later on, you give your bounty to the player who knocked you out.

Assuming I've got this right, is there any way to get TD to behave in the way I want it to? Ie, by not awarding bounties to players unless they eliminate someone entirely from the tournament?

shushs

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 09:48:41 AM »
That sounds like it may be a bit difficult to manage. We run with "unlimited" rebuys for the first hour. Each time, except for at the one hour break, you have to be out of chips and each time, you pay for a new bounty chip. At the break, if you are pretty short stacked, you can forfeit your stack and rebuy. That unclaimed bounty chip just ends up in the pot.
I am no expert, but I think the 'hit' is when the bounty is recorded. If you have someone not rebuy, then the hit and the elimination are the same. In either case though, they are 'out of the tournament', just that some may choose to re-enter by rebuying. Interesting take on the rebuy...

Blind Joe

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 02:11:57 PM »
That sounds like it may be a bit difficult to manage. We run with "unlimited" rebuys for the first hour. Each time, except for at the one hour break, you have to be out of chips and each time, you pay for a new bounty chip. At the break, if you are pretty short stacked, you can forfeit your stack and rebuy. That unclaimed bounty chip just ends up in the pot.
I am no expert, but I think the 'hit' is when the bounty is recorded. If you have someone not rebuy, then the hit and the elimination are the same. In either case though, they are 'out of the tournament', just that some may choose to re-enter by rebuying. Interesting take on the rebuy...
I think you might be right, I just wonder if there's any way of telling TD not to do that and to only award bounties at full elimination.

I suppose a workaround would be to have the busted player rebuy without recording the bust, but that's not a perfect solution since I would like to award points for hits, plus it wouldn't be a true reflection of what had actually happened.

Edit: out of interest why do you say it's an interesting take on rebuys?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:26:59 PM by Blind Joe »

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 06:43:13 PM »
Your assessment is correct.  You have distinguished "bust-outs" from "eliminations" in a way the TD has historically NOT done, but that is a reasonable way to describe it:  Bust-outs are anytime a player loses all of his/her chips and is busted-out of the tournament, and an elimination is a the bust-out where the player does not return to the tournament (by rebuying).

The TD awards bounty chips on bust-outs.  It does not distinguish bust-outs from eliminations in this regard.

So if Ted buys a bounty chip and is busted out by Bob, Ted gives his bounty chip to Bob.  It doesn't matter if Ted then rebuys.  Bob still keeps Ted's bounty chip.  However, Ted can buy another bounty chip with his rebuy (if the tournament is configured that way).

There is an open feature request to incorporate both methods.  There's a small issue (sort of) where the tournament status would be "wrong" for a time after a player is busted out who then later rebuys.  What I mean is that the hitman would receive the bounty chip of the busted player, but when the busted player rebuys the bounty chip would be returned.  In our example above, Bob would get Ted's bounty chip, and the tournament status would reflect this (such as Bob's winnings), but when Ted rebuys the chip would be returned to Ted and the tournament status would be updated again.  It's a bit janky and would feel like a bug, but there's not really any way around it.

In the meantime, there is a way to workaround this.  It's a tiny chore (well, in a tournament of 9 players), but it works.  After the tournament, edit each player, go down to the History section, and if a player is busted-out and rebuys at any time during the tournament, simply edit their buy-in and remove the bounty chip amount (in your case, set the $5.00 to 0), and then edit the final rebuy and set the bounty chip amount to $5.  Do this for all players.

I just did this for your tournament and it took me about 60 seconds.  I see the winnings after doing so are exactly what you expected.

** Edit: One last thing: there's a Bounty Chip column on the Players tab that shows the bounty chip amount paid upon buy-in.  This will no longer reflect the correct amount, since anyone who rebuys will have their bounty chip amount removed from the buy-in and added to the rebuy.  No matter though, this column is from long ago before bounty chips were even added to rebuys.  Best to ignore it altogether and use the other bounty columns.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 06:48:14 PM by Corey Cooper »

Blind Joe

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Re: Bounties and Prizes issue
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2020, 06:45:55 AM »
Thanks for the detailed reply Corey, that definitely clears things up for me, and following your instructions my tournament now has all the correct stats etc. Cheers :)