Author Topic: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"  (Read 4578 times)

Jonas

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"The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« on: September 16, 2007, 06:03:52 AM »
Hi!

I run a weekly tournament series (point based). We average about 25 players (max 32, min 16). Some of my members attend every tournament, some attend almost every tournament and some attend just a few. There ar 7 players on the final table, and I award them some extra points. Everyone gets points for playing. The top three get some extra points. Every tournament I randomly pick out two bounties. The two players that have the bounties when they reach the final table get an extra 1000 chips to play with. No extra points, but that's a feature I would like to incorporate. The season runs for 12 weeks.

Here's the points-for-playing formula I've been using so far:
if(rank =1, 2+6+n+1-r) +
if(rank =2, 2+4+n+1-r) +
if(rank =3, 2+2+n+1-r) +
if(rank =4, 2+n+1-r) +
if(rank =5, 2+n+1-r) +
if(rank =6, 2+n+1-r) +
if(rank =7, 2+n+1-r) +
if(rank > 7, n+1-r)

It's been OK, but it gives a HUGE advantage to the players attending ALL tournaments. Really good players that has missed a couple of tournaments tend to be punished quite hard for that.

So the questions are of a general nature:
- What point/score system do you think would be the most "fair" for tournament series like this?
- What would the formula look like?
- Is there a way to display stats for the whole series on-screen DURING a tournament?
  (my players are mostly interested in the overall score - as there are no prizes for individual tournaments, just for the whole season)

I would appreciate lots of different opinions! (parden my rusty english...)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 11:05:27 AM by Jonas »

PJAYPITP

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Re: Formula Jungle!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2007, 07:11:39 PM »
firstly i think you need to explain the points you are currently awarding!!

showing myself the formula means nothing however i will be happy to make suggestions
if i could see the points then we could goto the fomula disscussion from there!!

if i tried to answer your question now i would say one thing
"my good players who dont play or cant play get punished the most" not the exact quote"

no player should put themselves out of the ranking by thinking there to good and can catch up!!

i dont know your formula or points but if your looking at increasing a customer base you should advise players to come more often or it will be difficult to win it!!!!!!! ;)

Jonas

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Re: Formula Jungle!
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 10:54:29 AM »
Explenation:

All players get points. The first one to bust gets 1 point, the second gets 2 points, the third gets 3 points etc.  The final table (7 players) get 2 extra points. Number 3 gets an additional 2 points (on top of the final-table-points). Number 2 gets an additional 4 points and the winner gets an additional 6 points.

So:
I absolutely agree to your argument that it should be a clear advantage to participate in all - or most - tournament. I'm actually quite happy with my system, but I think - maybe - the players who play all tournaments gets too much advantage. All my players know that if they miss 2-3 tournaments, then a top placement is out of reach.

This could backfire. If a good player, for some good reason, miss out on two tournaments > she might just wait until the next season starts? I've seen top players loose interest in the total results after missing one or two tournaments. Is this system the best to take care of "both worlds"?

My system also gives more points to players who win tournaments with the highest number of participants. I.e a tournament with 30 players will award 38 points to the winner. A tournament with only 18 players will award 26 points. I think that's pretty fair?

I want the system to be interesting for the top players (who often have other tournament offers etc), the intermediate (who are the most eager players in my house) - and the amateurs.

What kind of improvments should/could I make?

Bixby

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 01:24:13 PM »
I run a 20 game season and the players get to use their best 7 from their first 10 games. Some corollary to that would help offset frequent players getting a bonus. Works well for us.
My KARMA ran over your DOGMA

JonniB

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 02:07:05 PM »
aha! Bixby ... exactly what i'm looking at doing ... can you tell me how you are managing that? I run 150+ tournies a year and am looking to have a rankings table this year based on the 'best 50' results for a player - dropping their worst results for people who've played more than 50. Hopefully there is a way within TD2.

Cheers!!

TheCOG

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 02:29:38 PM »
TD offers a simple way to do this, and we do something similar for our league - trying to encourage participation, w/o overly-penalizing someone who misses a couple of tourneys.  We will have about 19 tourneys this season, but only the player's top 17 tourneys count, so a player can miss 2 tourneys w/o it affecting their score.

Go to the Statistics tab, then filters, and under "overall score formula", type in the formula you want.  I use the following:

sum (top (n-2, scores))

That means it adds up each player's best scores, up to the number of tourneys played ("n") minus 2.  You can then add a column on the stats screen to view this score.

In your case, if you know you want to include the top 50 scores, as an example, you simply replace "n-2" with "50").

Hope this helps.

Carl.

Bixby

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 03:53:11 PM »
JonniB:
We have an Access Database that we use to generate reports. (A) Player Stats and Standings Report, (B) League Finance Report, (C) Individual Game Reports. Have not found a way to do this in TD yet. We are looking to have TD export data directly to our Access DB though.

Carl:
That is great for looking after the Best x of y games but it will not handle the best x of the first y games in a total of z games.
Our players get to use their BEST 7 of their FIRST 10 games. Game 11 and on for each player will never alter their points ranking.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 03:55:35 PM by Bixby »
My KARMA ran over your DOGMA

JonniB

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 05:07:23 PM »
many thanks guys ... i shall be tryin it out on last season's results to see what difference it makes :) cheers

JonniB

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 01:34:37 PM »
Go to the Statistics tab, then filters, and under "overall score formula", type in the formula you want.  I use the following:

sum (top (n-2, scores))

That means it adds up each player's best scores, up to the number of tourneys played ("n") minus 2.  You can then add a column on the stats screen to view this score.

In your case, if you know you want to include the top 50 scores, as an example, you simply replace "n-2" with "50").

Hope this helps.

Carl.

Okay sorry to be a pain - but for some reason that doesnt work - i seem to be getting an average of the top 50 scores ... e.g. my top player has played 108 tournaments, a win gets a player about 250-400 points depending on buyin etc., using the above formula his 'Overall Score' comes out at 97.4006 ... clearly not a SUM of his best 50 results, it appears to be an average ... any ideas?? Thanks.

PS I cleared the 'Tournament Scores' formula under the stats/filters tab ... should there be any formula in here?

PPS Ok, looks like 'Tournament Scoring' needs to be the same formula as the points calculation for individual tournaments ... which is fine cos i use the same formula for all the tournies. However, if i had different formulas for freezeout / rebuys / etc. this wouldnt work properly. Is there perhaps a 'token' i can put in the 'tournament score' formula e.g. <points>, which just takes the points score. Making progress, gettin to the bottom of it ...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 02:21:06 PM by JonniB »

Corey Cooper

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Re: "The Formula Jungle" and "The Best Point System in the World"
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 03:40:53 PM »
The 'Tournament Scoring' formula creates the 'scores' variable for the 'Overall Scoring' formula.  If you are adding up the points a player has received in the various tournaments in which they played, excluding say the worst 2 tournaments, then just set the 'Tournament Scoring' formula to "points".

For the Overall Scoring, probably what you want to do is something like this:

sum (top (count(scores)-2, scores))

'n' represents the total number of tournaments [that have been included for stats].  In other words, the number of tournaments that were found, loaded, and passed the filter.  This is fine if all of your players play in all of your tournaments.

The 'scores' variable will represent a list of the individual player's scores.  The count() function will return the number of items in the list.  So, it will return the number of tournaments this player played in.

So this function adds up all of this players scores, excluding the 2 tournaments in which he scored the least.