Author Topic: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds  (Read 9512 times)

Slabnose

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V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« on: September 10, 2007, 11:40:14 AM »
I have just upgraded to V2.4 and now find that I am unable to get many of the sounds to play at all. Sounds previously configured to be played at 60 seconds, 15 seconds and 5 seconds before the end of a round and similarly sounds configured to be played during breaks and the countdown to the start of the game have stopped working! The "bust out" sounds work fine (having been reconfigured into single event) but i just cannot figure out what is preventing these sounds from playing. Any help would be much appreciated.

Corey Cooper

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 11:55:13 AM »
Are any of the sounds or events displayed on the Events tab listed in red?  That would indicate that the sound file is invalid (ie, the sound file can't be found) or that the event doesn't have any actions assigned to it (nothing will happen when the event is fired).

Save your events in a template and send them to me and I'll check it out.

Slabnose

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 12:13:12 PM »
No red events - will e-mail sample template tomorrow. Many thanks

Slabnose

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2007, 08:48:51 PM »
Doh! Panic over! Just needed to amend the conditions from "CountdownSecondsRemaining=nnn" (as created automatically upon loading the game file created in v2.3) to "(state = 1) && (secondsLeft = nnn)".

Corey Cooper

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2007, 09:12:02 PM »
I wrote the code to upgrade Sound Events to the new Events model, then decided to change some of the variable names, and forgot to go back and update that code.  Doh!

I'm going to fix this (and there are a few others just like this) and release a bug-fix version ASAP.

Glad you figured it out.

Jedi Master

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2007, 06:03:56 PM »
 ???
I just downloaded Version 2.4 which has enhancements in the ability to play sounds. 

Really ? 

I ran a test of a tournament created in Version 2.3.7, the last version.
NONE OF THE EVENTS, that are supposed to be triggered by the clock time,  plays!  This is the opposite of the thread about events at start / end of round not working.  All my start of round plays correctly, including breaks.  "Start of specific round" are the ONLY sound that plays, except Round 1.  No "start of round sound in Round 1.  None of my clock triggered events play.  Hotkey items like Buy-In and Re-Buys works fine.  No Sound or Events in RED.
 
Slabnose,   "(state = 1) && (secondsLeft = nnn)" ??   How in hell did you figure that out???
I'm sure I speak for many . . .  I am totally lost on how to fix problems in this "FORMULA" format !!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now my whining . . . Sorry Corey . . . I have to let out some steam.

I looked at the sound tab ( EVENT TAB now . . . ) and found that the User Interface has completely been redesigned !!!  WHY???? 

I think I AM A GOOD REPRESENTATION of an AVERAGE JOE that use TTD.  While I can do basic FORMULA stuff on a spread sheet . . .  talk to me about MATHEMATICAL FORMULA LANGUAGE AND SYNTAX . . .  and my eyes roll up and faint ! ! !

While I see the advantage of having more flexibility in EVENTS . . .  I AM NOT A PROGRAMMER.  What was wrong with the old interface ????   All you had to do was add a few more . . . like the ability to play a timed sound event during specific breaks.  I am a computer USER . . .  not a PROGRAMMER.  The OLD interface was usable by AN AVERAGE JOE like myself.

I understand that the enhancements are great . . .  BUT IF AN AVERAGE GUY like myself FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO USE,  let alone understand, IS IT REALLY A STEP FORWARD??   THE PROBLEM IS THE USER INTERFACE FOR THE SOUNDS.  I think its more of an obstacle for the more casual users of the software.

I am totally befuddled by the CONDITIONS box.  Any syntax error here . . .  then what?  How do I de-bug the "condition" entry?  I look at it and its all Greek to me !

The condition entry to my events that is supposed to be triggered by clock tick looks fine to me . . . but they don't play.  Maybe its missing a "(" or something else.  I need a "How to program Events in TTD for DUMMIES" type of manual . . .  full of examples.

How do I CORRECTLY test the condition?  I gave it a few tries but it doesn't work. I'm doing something wrong, but what is it?  I need a "how to test events" manual.

I spent many hours with the last version to get my tournament sounding just the way it should be.  With Version 2.4 . . .  I am still looking at many more hours just to make my previous work compatible with the new version.  GRRRRRRRR !!!!!

My tournaments are very simple . . .  it runs in the SIMPLE MODE. I assume, just like most of the users, I just want to run a tournament.  No player tracking, no league, no chip count tracking, no seating chart and my layouts don't change.  My screen looks ONE way during countdown, ONE main screen during rounds, ONE during a break and ONE when the tournament ends ( screens changing during a round turns out to be annoying to all players).  I have chip values, house rules, blind schedule and all other information posted ON THE WALL . . .  available for all to see at ALL times.  The computer and the screen has ONE task . . .  RUN THE TOURNAMENT.

Messages and rules on the screen is a cute but impractical idea.   Experience tells me that if the information a person is looking for is not immediately available, that person will look for it somewhere else.  Unless you are using a 50" LCD screen, computer screens are difficult to see at a distance.  Messages on a screen is hardly ever read or even noticed by anyone.  Right tool for the task.  Blind levels and chip values on an 11X17 tabloid size paper with large bold types works best for me. My blind schedule is on TWO 11x17 sheets, landscape mode . . .  thats 22x17 poster size on the wall and it is legible from anywhere in the room.  Other informations are also posted on the wall where it is always available.

So . . .  can I get some help regarding the CONDITION entries ??  Like  HOW TO DE-BUG ?   SOME EXAMPLES,  like If you want to do this, type this into the condition box?  How do I use the "Test Condition" ??

Here is the CONDITION ENTRY for a sound event when the clock reaches 69 seconds during a round (sound takes 9 seconds to play) . . .  but it doesn't play.
Condition Entry :  isRound && (secondsRemaining = 69)

The entry looks good to me . . .   but something is wrong cause it doesnt play.  I want to fix it but I have no idea where to start.  The "formula" area in the "help tab" has waay too much information and is waaay too confusing.

HELP MEEEEEEEEEE !!

Jedi Master

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2007, 07:39:53 PM »
OK, 

I am confused . . .???

This in regards to the sound events that are currently working, the ones not triggered by the clock.

I have events that play properly at the start of particular Rounds.  Round 2 announces the proper blinds, and Round 3 announces the proper blinds, therefore each start of round is playing different sound files.

When I go to "Edit Event"  both Round 2 and Round 3 event has . . .
Trigger :  "A level starts"
Conditions : isRound
Action : Play sound : BLIND LVL nn

I am confused because Trigger and Condition is identical to ALL start of round sounds. 
Assuming, that ACTION only specifies which sound file to play, how does each event "know" which Round the tournament is in?

Shouldn't the Condition entry have some sort of decision parameter like "IF in Round 3 and at the start of Round" instead of just "isRound" ??

ALL the Round start event Condition is identical . . .  logic says,  ALL sound files (18 different sounds, one for each Round) should play at once . . . since the Condition is just "isRound" without checking which level is current.

The mystery is . . .  the correct blinds are announced at the beginning of each Round and correct start of break announcement for each break !!  Where is the Round being specified ?   Somehow IT KNOWS which Round its in !!   HOW ???

Any idea ?  anyone ?

Corey Cooper

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2007, 10:32:57 PM »
The "upgrade" code was buggy (in case you didn't read the reply just before the one you added).  So when you loaded your Sounds template or a saved tournament from a previous version of the software, it was not properly upgrading to the new events.  This is why some of them did not work.

I fixed this and released version 2.4.1 earlier this evening.  As long as you haven't saved those templates/tournaments using version 2.4, you should simply be able to update to 2.4.1, and when you load those templates and/or tournaments the sound events should properly update.

If you HAVE already saved them using version 2.4, then they will be saved in a broken state.  If you would like, I can help you to fix them.  Just send them to me.

Thank you for all of your feedback regarding events.  There are many reasons why I changed the Sounds Events to Events.  The main reason is that users of the Tournament Director continue requesting more features, including the ability to have a sound played "when ______" (fill in the blank).  That list kept growing, and with each addition it became increasingly difficult to add without breaking something else.

By changing the model, just about any situation can be addressed without need to modify the software.  So, if you want to play the Jeopardy bonus round theme when the first person busts out and it's already past the 7th round in your tournament, you can create an event that does this.  No feature request.

I realize that adding this type of flexibility has its costs, a main one being complexity to users such as yourself.  This is why, when you create a new event, you are given the option of selecting from a pre-defined list of events.  In that list is every type of sound event that was available in previous versions of the software.  Therefore, if you just want to use stuff you are familiar with, there is no reason to learn the details of how events work.

In answer to your next question: treat the entire Conditions as an IF statement.  If the conditions are simply "isRound", then you should read it as "IF ( isRound ) THEN perform the actions".

By the way, I suspect Slabnose figured out the right "Conditions" because he probably attempted to create new events (after his existing sound template didn't upgrade properly) and noticed the conditions in those pre-defined events are different from the ones in his "upgraded" events.  The pre-defined events were correct, and used the right variable names.  The upgraded ones did not.


Jedi Master

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2007, 01:04:10 AM »
Thanks Corey,

I downloaded and installed Version 2.4.1.  I did not save anything while running V 2.4, so I should be OK.  After running V 2.4.1, the condition string on the clock triggered events are different than in V 2.4.  It solved most of the problems . . . except

1.  None of the clock triggered events during Countdown plays.

2.  The sound event that is supposed to play when a player on the bubble is eliminated does not play

3.  The sound event scheduled to play when the tournament ends does not play.

I am assuming that the problem is somewhere in the "condition" string.

Al the events during countdown has the same string with the exception of the value nn for number of seconds left in countdown.

(state = 1) && (secondsLeft = nn)

Should there be something in there that designates a condition "while in countdown mode" ??   OR  is the first item in (  )  doing the same thing?
I noticed that clock triggered events during a round has (state=2).  If state 1 is countdown and state 2 is during a round, why are events during a break ALSO state 2?

The condition string for the player eliminated n the bubble is    rank = (inTheMoney + 1)

The end of the tournament does not have a condition,  the trigger is 'The tournament ends"


What does (state=1) mean?  How many total "states" are there?

Is there a list of legal string names, such as "secondsLeft", "inTheMoney" etc. ?  I would like to take the time learn how to write condition strings but without knowing all the available string names, their functions and string syntax rules . . . its kinda tough.  I think I can figure out the rest . . .  before I pull all my hair out and go bald.

Any help at this point would be great.

Thanks

Corey Cooper

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2007, 08:50:58 AM »
On the Event dialog, there is a "Test Conditions" section (press the + to open it).  All of the variables are listed there.  Hovering the mouse over the variable gives descriptions.  "state" is described as: A number indicating the "state" of the tournament: 0 indicates the tournament has not started; 1 indicates a pre-tournament countdown; 2 indicates the tournament is currently in progress; 3 indicates the tournament has ended.

I tested Countdown events, and they work.  One thing I noticed, though.  I created 2 events to test this, both from the pre-defined list: 'Countdown end warning' and 'Level end warning'.  These are identical except that one should only warn the end of the countdown, while the other should warn the end of a round or break.  The problem is the 'Level end warning' doesn't distinguish between the countdown and rounds/breaks (ie, it is missing a "state=2" clause that would keep it from firing during a countdown).  So, the "countdown end warning" will fire only during the countdown, but the "level end warning" will fire during the countdown or game, so you'll need to keep "countdown end warning" events HIGHER in the list of events in order to make them work properly together, or add the clause mentioned above.

The sound event for a player being eliminated on the bubble DOES work, but not in simple (non-player tracking) mode.  I discovered this while working on 2.4.1, and made a decision NOT to fix it *yet*.  My rational was that I will be unavailable this weekend, and making that additional fix would likely delay 2.4.1 until next week, and I did not want to delay this release.  This will be fixed in 2.4.2.

When multiple events are triggered, only ONE will play.  A tournament end almost always occurs when someone busts out, therefore if you have a tournament end event and a bust-out event, the one higher in the list of events will play.  Move your Tournament End event higher in the list.





brunobus

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2007, 06:02:30 PM »
I have about 80 different sounds that played when someone busted out.  The old version automatically randomized the sounds so they wouldn't come up in the same order for each event as players bust out.  I also have 3 sounds that randomly play when the tournament starts, 4 at the start of breaks and 5 at the end of breaks.  Now, it seems, that it only picks the first sound listed and plays that same sound over and over.

How can I get the randomization back on 2.4.1?

Jedi Master

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2007, 01:03:09 AM »
Thanks Corey,

First off, my tournament is playing all the sounds as it should !! 

BUT . . .

I was not able to get any of the "upgraded sounds" for tournament countdown to play.  The "condition string" is the same as the ones generated by "countdown end warning" from the drop down list in the "new event".  5 of the previous events that played every 5 minutes from 30 minutes (1800 sec.) left on the countdown clock just wouldn't play . . . UNTIL I created a ONE new event that plays the sound every 5 minutes.  I deleted the old ones.  Now it works just the way it used to.

I also had one that played at 5 minutes remaining, one that played at 3 minutes, one that played at 16 seconds during countdown.  The funny thing is . . .  I had to re-create these individual events before the sounds will play . . .  even though the condition string was IDENTICAL to the ones that were upgraded.  Since I re-created all the countdown events, they work fine now.  I'm starting to get the hang of creating events and using the tester.  Its a case of OLD DOG, NEW TRICK   ;)

As far as the "tournament end" sound not playing . . .   I did what you suggested and moved the event higher in the list than the bust-out event.  It still didn't play.  You said when two events happen at the same time, only one will play . . .  so that got me thinking.  For the tournament to end,  the second place player has to bust out of the tournament.  The problem was, when I bust out the second place player, a generic "player eliminated" sound played.  The tournament ALWAYS ends when the second place player busted out.  So, I created a new event for a player busting out with rank 2.  This creates a unique event ONLY for rank 2 bust out . . . then I put a check mark in the "omit" column for this event . . .  No scheduled sound to play when rank 2 player busts out . . . which leaves only one sound event to play . . . the "tournament end" sound.  It works !!

The upgraded clock triggered countdown events might be a bug in the code for upgrading old templates and games.

I did find a bug !  The clock paused reminder event I had,  did not play.  I also regenerated this event.  The "condition" string that was generated looks very different from the one that was upgraded.

Now I can start experimenting with some of the new expanded features in the EVENT tab !!

I'll be looking forward to version 2.4.2 where the bubble player event will play in the simple mode.

Are there anything else I should know about when I'm running in simple mode?

Thanks a lot.


DaveBullets

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2007, 12:22:41 PM »
Like brunobus, I have the same problem.  The sound events higher up on the list always plays.  There is no randomization.  What can we do to retify this?

Also, in the events tab, under the events column, it would help (like the old version) to see what sound file is actually listed.

For example: Old version says:          play damn_you when a player busts out
                                                   play ready_to_rock when the tournamnet starts
                                           
                   New version just says: when a player busts out
                                                  when the tournament starts

It's tough to locate a particular file when TD owners have 10+ files they use for a particular event.  Could this suggestion be implemented back into version 2.4?

Thanks Corey.

Corey Cooper

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 04:05:04 PM »
Dave: I agree, but just haven't come up with a good solution for this yet.  The issue is that an event could have dozens of actions, that play sounds and display messages, etc, so just listing the sound file in the main Event section doesn't really cut it.  I've put this on the to-do list.

Brunobus: Before, if you had 2 or more sound events for the same thing, it would randomly pick one of them to play when the "event" occurred.  Now, instead of creating multiple events with different sounds, you create only 1 event.  To that event you add multiple Actions for playing sounds.  There is also an "Action Settings" dialog, where you can tell the software what you want it to do when there are more than 1 sound to be played for a particular event.

JediMaster: I will look into what you've described this week and see if I can find anything.  As for the "clock paused reminder": You're right.  I went over those with a fine-toothed comb (several times) so I would not repeat the mistakes in 2.4, and somehow I still missed that one.  Grrr.

brunobus

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Re: V2.4 Muted Event Sounds
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2007, 05:52:11 PM »
Well it looks like I get to spend some time at the computer tonight fixing things.  Oh well.  Still worth the effort, I just didn't want to have unless I had to.