Author Topic: Player Seating when down to the Final Table  (Read 3365 times)

smiggy9

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Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« on: July 14, 2007, 07:46:26 AM »
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help with this one. I've been running V 2.2.2.

When we get the last table breakup to make up our final table, I can't make any sense out of the seating positions given.
Say I have two tables and it finally gets down to nine players for a final table, I then want the final table to take account of the blinds positions of the existing tables, so that players don't find themselves moving to the final table and then being blinded twice. I think I have followed the help instructions correctly, but even when I stipulate the dealer button on the players for the NEXT hand before clicking on 'Suggest Movement', the system gives a random seat placing ignoring the impact of the previous blinds. Even if I lock a player into the seat position that also has the dealer button, the seat movement will move him out of that seat and take the dealer button away from him. Then the people who would have been coming up for the blinds are often now placed behind the dealer button, and the new players coming into the table who may have just been on the blinds are now being asked to post again. I've had continual rumblings about this, and this is the only time in using the software that things seem to go skewy. Several players have noticed this, and I have tried to re-run the seating suggestion with various combinations of button placement and seat locking. Perhaps I couldn't get it right because I was under pressure at the time, in a live situation. I'm going to set up a sample test game and clock it through to see if I can make any sense of this. Thoughts, anyone?

Cheers,

Steve

Corey Cooper

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 08:27:53 AM »
When you are collapsing to the final table, how should button-relative movement be handled?  Let's say you have tables of 10 seats.  5 players on one, 6 on the other.  One player busts out, so the tables should be combined.  Before combining, you're going to have 2 players in the big blind position, 2 in the small blind, 2 in the UTG position, 2 in the next position, etc.  Who gets to be in those positions when you combine the tables?

I guess the only right answer in this situation might be, for example, the player in the big blind shouldn't be someone who was just in the big blind.  But the answer will vary depending on who you play with.

Two ways to deal with this: (1) move the "important" players manually, then "suggest" and let the TD move the others;  (2) mix it up a bit by randomizing the final table.

smiggy9

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 10:15:45 AM »
Your option (2) is the one we end up going with all the time. I tried your option (1) but the seating suggestion then seemed to pay no attention to where the dealer button was placed or who was locked into a given seat, it would still move them AND/OR the button.

I just felt that the software could do more here. As I see it, the table that is being ADDED to is the table with priority, so the blinds structure of that table should prevail and the incoming players should fit into the gaps in a pattern that would make those from the old table about to be on the blinds come into the blinds before any of the other joinees, if you see what I mean. It doesn't do that at all. Every time we get to a final table situation, almost everyone is forced to move their seat at that table. Why don't the incomers simply fill up the empty seats?

What we have to do (and this is causing the grumbles) is we say ALL STOP - FINAL TABLE. Then we move the dealer button to a seat, call this seat one, let the software suggest the seating and off we go. Tough if it means you post the big blind twice - which is where the complaints come from, especially when they blinds are large at this stage in the game.


Scotty K

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 10:46:55 AM »
My 2cents here....

That's the way that they do it in the casinos that I have played tournaments at.  When we would get to the final table, the draw for seating position is completely randomized, regardless of where the players were sitting before.  So, indeed, you may get hit with a blind twice.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 10:53:29 AM »
It's moving everyone at the final table probably because you have that option set.  On the Tables tab, press the Settings button.  You'll see an option for automatically randomizing the final table.  It's checked by default.

smiggy9

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2007, 04:19:39 AM »
Sah....weet! ;D

I tried this and it works fine, thanks Corey.

Lesson learnt: Read the manual, and explore the settings........oops!

Thanks for your patience, and prompt replies.

Thanks for your 2c worth too Scotty, I appreciate it man!

Long live TD!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 04:23:23 AM by smiggy9 »

Phaze

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 07:40:41 AM »
Hey Corey, this kinda ties in here, but more of a suggestion... What if there was a kind of popular options settings. By this I mean a bunch of preset options on how to crash tables and then the user can just pick the option that sounds like it would be how he would want do it. Its not as precise but it would smooth out nicely for beginner TD users. And this preset template options can be used in other areas too. I know you can ask for a suggestion for rounds and prizes, but instead of that you could have preset templates such as WSOP Rounds, Pokerstar.com tournament Rounds, etc etc. The idea is that the beginner TD user doesn't have to know anything about the program and still come off as a Tournament Director God

Corey Cooper

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 09:53:10 AM »
That is actually how I've tried to structure the default settings.  I got so many suggestions to "automatically randomize the final table" that I set it as the default.  Either way you do it, someone will want it the other way and won't figure out how to change it without asking.  Such is software, and such is life.

As for rounds, I'm happy to add more, but there actually are quite a few included with the software, including Poker Stars (1-table sit and go).  Don't have the WSOP structure.  Anyone?

MattBurlew

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2007, 05:46:45 PM »

jklaver

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2007, 08:01:54 PM »
Hi Corey,

I do recall that old version of TD did allow me to pick the table as a final table.  The current version of TD doesn't provide "Final table" when I click on the table.  ??? The reason why is that I have a luxury final table so I want to make it as a final table when the players are busting out.  Any suggestion?  Many thanks!  Keep it up!  8)
John "TrueNorthCanada"

Corey Cooper

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2007, 08:10:21 PM »
The "Final Table" feature has been enhanced, which is why you no longer have the option to simply select a final table.

On the Tables tab, press the Collapse Order button.  There you can configure exactly how your tables collapse, if you want.  Or, if you just want to designate a "final table", put your final table into the "Collapse these tables last" list.

tandemrx

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Re: Player Seating when down to the Final Table
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 12:55:00 PM »
smiggy,

If you get complaints - just show them Robert's rules of poker:

" In all events, there is a redraw for seating when the field is reduced to three tables, two tables, and one table. (Redrawing at three tables is not mandatory in small tournaments with only four or five starting tables.)"

Whenever there is a redraw for a table there is also a redraw for the button.

If you are going to try to account for the 2 people who had the button, then you would have to account for all those under the gun, and all those that just had the button, and all those who just posted a small blind and should be on the button . . .

Instead of drawing cards, I simply randomize the seating, then randomly apply the dealer button.

If people whine, you can just show them the rule (there is another rule in robert's rules of order about randomly applying the button for button games - probably drawing a card, but random placement from the computer is within the spirit of the rule).

. . . and then tell them "there is no whining in poker" (I think that is in the rules too) :)