Author Topic: Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes  (Read 1100 times)

steveg

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Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes
« on: November 15, 2014, 09:14:17 PM »
I need help managing rakes please.  My league rakes 15% of all buyins, rebuys, and addons.  We would like to split the total rake in the following manner:

$39.99 (one time) -- TD Software
10% of Remainder -- End-of-Season Points Leader
90% of Remainder -- End-of-Season Main Event

I would like the ability to display each of these separately, so my league members can see exactly where all the money is going.  Should I just use one rake and split out the total somehow in the stats, or should I use a separate rake for each purpose?  In either case could someone please help me with the formulas, and how to accomplish these goals?

I would also like to host a knock-out tournament later in the season.  I want the house to contribute (from the rake) $5 for each player who buys in to the knock-out tournament.  I am thinking that I should add $5 to the buyin cost and then add $5 for each player to the house contribution.   Can TD add a per-player house contribution, or do I have to do this manually by multiplying the number of players by $5 myself and then entering that amount into the house contribution field?  In either case, how can I have this house contribution subtracted from the total rake so that it will be reflected in the stats?

Thanks a bunch for your help with this, and thanks for developing the best poker league management software on the market!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 02:39:31 PM by steveg »

Corey Cooper

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Re: Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 05:56:03 PM »
I need help managing rakes please.  My league rakes 15% of all buyins, rebuys, and addons.  We would like to split the total rake in the following manner:

$39.99 (one time) -- TD Software
10% of Remainder -- End-of-Season Points Leader
90% of Remainder -- End-of-Season Main Event

I would like the ability to display each of these separately, so my league members can see exactly where all the money is going.  Should I just use one rake and split out the total somehow in the stats, or should I use a separate rake for each purpose?  In either case could someone please help me with the formulas, and how to accomplish these goals?

The difficulty in this method is that while the TD does have a fixed rake, it's per-tournament and it sounds like you're raking into a season-long bucket.  If you knew exactly how many tournaments there would be, you could set the Fixed Rake for each tournament to be $39.99 divided by the number of tournaments.  Then you'd be sure to collect that amount by the end of the season.  However, that's supposed to come out of the 15% of all buy-ins, rebuys, and add-ons, which you can't really know ahead of time.  So, I'd say you're likely going to need to do some math to calculate this stuff, and not separate rakes.

You could co-opt the Overall Scores columns to calculate this, but the rows on the Stats columns are meant to be per-player, so it looks funny.  For example, I configured the Stats page to show the Overall Score 2 and Overall Score 3 columns, then renamed the Overall Score 2 column to "End-of-Season Points Leader" and Overall Score 3 column to "End-of-Season Main Event".  In my Stats Profile, I set the Overall Score 2 formula to (allTotalTotalRake - 39.99) * .1 and the Overall Score 3 formula to (allTotalTotalRake - 39.99) * .9.  This shows the correct values (I think), it's just that it shows the same values on every line of the stats.

I would also like to host a knock-out tournament later in the season.  I want the house to contribute (from the rake) $5 for each player who buys in to the knock-out tournament.  I am thinking that I should add $5 to the buyin cost and then add $5 for each player to the house contribution.   Can TD add a per-player house contribution, or do I have to do this manually by multiplying the number of players by $5 myself and then entering that amount into the house contribution field?  In either case, how can I have this house contribution subtracted from the total rake so that it will be reflected in the stats?

Thanks a bunch for your help with this, and thanks for developing the best poker league management software on the market!

Hmmm... so, you're raking but then turning around and adding [at least part of] that rake back into the pot?  It definitely will have to be manual, because the House Contribution is a scalar value only - not a formula of any kind.  I'm wondering where this will show up that matters.  If you just don't add $5 to the rake and don't set the House Contribution field, you'll get the same results (and the correct rake will be there for stats).  That leaves only the House Contribution field itself.  Are you displaying that to players somewhere?  If so, you can always just mock-up your layout to display "House Contribution" of whatever you want.  In fact, you can use an <expression> token to add it in real-time, like this:

<nobr>House Contribution: <expression text="buyins * 5" format="money" precision="2"></nobr>

Does that work?

steveg

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Re: Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 11:36:41 PM »
First of all, Corey, I would like to thank you for such a quick response!  Your suggestions were very helpful.

Now, let me explain my situation in a little more detail.  Our season consists of 12 events followed by the main event.  We rake 15% of all buyins, addons, and rebuys from each of the 12 regular season events.  That money goes into a lock box.  I paid $39.99 out of my pocket for the software.  Event #8 of 12 will be what I call a knockout tournament, in other words a bounty chip tournament.  I want each bounty chip to be worth $5, but I don't want to charge my players for them.  I want to take $5 per player out of the lock box for this purpose.  After event #12, I want to take $39.99 out of the lock box and put it back in my pocket.  I want to take 10% of what is left in the lock box and give it to the points leader.  What remains in the lock box will be paid out as prizes for the main event.  What I am looking for is a way to show how much money should be in the lock box at a given time.

I played around with the Overall Scores on the Stats page, and I got the results I was looking for (mostly).
I changed 'Overall Score' to 'Gross Rake' and set it to allTotalTotalRake.
I changed 'Overall Score 2' to 'Software Cost' and set it to 39.99.
I changed 'Overall Score 3' to 'Net Rake' and set it to allTotalTotalRake - 39.99.
I changed 'Overall Score 4' to 'ME Pool' and set it to (allTotalTotalRake - 39.99) *.9.
I changed 'Overall Score 4' to 'POTS Pool' and set it to (allTotalTotalRake - 39.99) *.1.

The 2 things that have thrown a monkey wrench into the works are the software cost and the knockout (bounty chip) tournament.  I suppose I could remove the software cost and net rake columns from my stats until after the 12th event, since I will not be "withdrawing" that money until then.  So that just leaves me with the issue of the knockout tournament.  What I would have liked to have happen is for TD to treat house contributions as negative rakes.  Then when all players have registered for the knockout tournament, I can quickly multiply the number of players by 5 and enter that amount into the House Contribution.  Then when I run my stats, my Gross Rake (which will have become a misnomer) would correctly show what is left in the lock box.  I think for this season, I will have to change the formula for my Net Rake after the knockout event and manually subtract the amount that was used for the house contribution.  Then I will change it again after event 12 to subtract the $39.99.

Does all of this make sense to you?  Am I going about this the right way, or is there a better way to accomplish what I'm looking for?

Some things that I think would be cool for a future release:

The ability to have mixed multiple rakes, i.e. rake 1 as a percentage, rake 2 as a fixed rake
The ability to designate holders into which each rake could be deposited and from which each house contribution could be withdrawn.
The ability to use the aforementioned holders in formulas and/or displayed directly as columns in stats

Thanks again, Corey, for all of your help.  Your formulas worked great!

Corey Cooper

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Re: Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 08:55:47 AM »
As long as it works for you, great.  The issues I see (which you do, too) are pulling money out of the total rake (basically, just applying an "Adjustment" to the total rake), and moving money from the total rake into the House Contribution.

Quote
The ability to have mixed multiple rakes, i.e. rake 1 as a percentage, rake 2 as a fixed rake

The reason this has never been pursued is the ease of which this can be done today.  "as a percentage" refers to the percentage of the transaction (I assume).  So, if you could create a rake as a percentage, you could for example have a buy-in of $100 and a rake of 10%.  It's just easy to set the rake to $10.  Sure, it would be a little easier if you decided to change the buy-in amount, but it doesn't buy you a whole lot (unless I'm missing something).

Quote
The ability to designate holders into which each rake could be deposited and from which each house contribution could be withdrawn.
The ability to use the aforementioned holders in formulas and/or displayed directly as columns in stats

Interesting idea.  The issue here is the way the software handles statistics.  The only way for this to truly work is for the current tournament to have access to the current statistics (current is a key word here).  "Current" statistics means whatever stats you've run on the Stats tab, which could be none if you haven't run them this time that you're running the software, or if you have run statistics they could be from a completely different season and/or league.  So pulling information from the stats into the current tournament is problematic.  The software would have to enforce a lot stricter control over tournaments, leagues, and seasons.

All-in-all good ideas.  I think the first may not be too hard ... I'll write myself a note to look into it.  The other two I think would require a fundamental change in how the software works, unfortunately.  :(

steveg

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Re: Managing and Reporting/Dislaying Rakes
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 04:30:02 PM »
Okay, that makes sense.  I can see why implementing my last 2 ideas would be a problem.  Regarding the percentage rake vs fixed rake, I think it would be easy enough for me to convert my rake to fixed amounts.  The way I have it setup now, I just entered the 15% rake in the general financial section.  Instead, I can input the rake separately in the buyins, rebuys, and addons sections, calculating 15% of the cost of each and entering the rakes as fixed amounts.  This will be helpful if I want to add a $4 rake to the buyin section for the remaining 10 events to compensate for the software purchase.  I will have my league members vote on whether to rake the $4 in addition to the current rake or leave it as is so that the $40 comes out of the originally planned 15% rake.

I hope all of that made sense.  Thanks, again Corey!  I love this software and the support you provide!