Author Topic: Bonus chips during buy-in  (Read 3910 times)

Smokin420s

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Bonus chips during buy-in
« on: March 23, 2014, 06:52:28 AM »
can we get a "Bonus Chips" form. just like the rebuy/addon form. All the clubs in my hometown and casinos offer bonus chips sales during their initial buy-in. it would be crazy difficult to make a script for the layout token if you use a buyin profile. players want to know the bonus chip count and or total bonus amount going towards the prize pool. I kinda think it would be easier than using profiles.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 09:18:40 AM »
How does that work?

Smokin420s

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 09:48:34 AM »
basically the same setup as an add-on just call it Bonus Chips but it only happens during the initial buyin.


example:
person buy-in for $50
person has option to buy 3k extra in chips for $10 this usually happens during there initial buy.

we can set this up in the profiles but we have no way of showing on the layout how many players purchased the bonus chips or the totally amount from the different profiles we setup.

most tournaments have this option around the world.

here is an example from wildhorse casino

« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 09:54:24 AM by Smokin420s »

Asegzamfire

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 08:23:53 PM »
Its the old Problem of the Dealer Addon versus the Addon...
If i remember correctly Jody ask you long time ago but it was problematic to do it.

Maybe we can look into it again, things may have change in this direction.  Personally we use the Addon section for the Dealer Bonus (dealer addon)  for exemple  50$buyin+$10 Fee + 5$ dealer Addon.

We use the buyin and the Addon section which is set to 3k for 5$

The problem it brings is that if you do that you cannot make a real addon at the break. or if you do you cant use the dealer addon.  Would be good to have another section like buyin addon and rebuy exactly the same, with his own section (line in the take-in, rake and Pot section) of the summary also. This will help to give more option to the players but also keeping a good track of the money in the tournament.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 08:26:18 PM by Asegzamfire »

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 11:45:46 PM »
I know I'm going to sound na´ve or possibly out of touch, but I have to admit I really just don't "get" this kind of tournament.  Personally I don't even like the idea of add-ons.  Rebuys I get (when busted-out; otherwise it's just an add-on under a different name to me).  Rebuys tend to loosen play and build the pot.  I think they can make tournaments more fun, particularly with people who don't regularly play.  Add-ons, to me, are like buying an election.  You may not win, but you're certainly changing the odds.  And not with skill, but with your pocketbook.

Now that I've said that (and I know it's completely irrelevant), I guess I don't understand the issue.

Smokin420s:
Quote
we can set this up in the profiles but we have no way of showing on the layout how many players purchased the bonus chips or the totally amount from the different profiles we setup.

Is the issue that you can't separate the "dealer add-on"/"Bonus chips" from the other add-ons?  That is, you want to be able to show how much was added to the pot via the bonus chips?  (And how many add-ons were purchased for a specific profile?)

I'm not sure you can even show how much money was added via add-ons in general, can you?  I guess you can do something like this:

<expression text="totalAddOnsAmount" format="money">

Would this be solved by adding a layout token that displayed the total amount of cash collected via an add-on of a specific profile?

Asegzamfire:
Quote
The problem it brings is that if you do that you cannot make a real addon at the break. or if you do you cant use the dealer addon.  Would be good to have another section like buyin addon and rebuy exactly the same, with his own section (line in the take-in, rake and Pot section) of the summary also. This will help to give more option to the players but also keeping a good track of the money in the tournament.

Sounds to me like you want to limit the number of Dealer Bonus add-ons a player can purchased and limit the number of "regular" add-ons a player can purchase.  In other words, you want to regulate (and report) them separately.  Is that right?

Asegzamfire

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 03:02:45 PM »
The dealer Add-ons has nothing to do with the game itself, like rebuy or Break Addons.

If you want to do a tournament with 16k in starting chip for 60$ but you add the services of dealers at the table, you spread the cost of the dealer on the players instead of taking more rake. That's what the dealer addons is there for.  So you set your tournament to 13k for $60 Starting stack and you offer 3k more in chip with the dealer at the table for a $5 tips to them. This way you are able to offer dealer in your tournament without affecting much your cost and its not really costing much more to the players also. Still the players are free to not take it.

The reason to have its own section in the summary is simply to be able to have a separate count for accountability reason. Like i said we work around this little problem so its not a big deal. I leave it up to  you to had it or not. Its not really a request but more of something that would be good to had since its the usual in all casino and poker room to use the dealer add on and it become more and more common in smaller game also.

To answer your quote is yes, dealer addon are raked so not going in the pot since its a tips that goes for them. the addon is money that goes in the pot. As it is set up right now you cant do both at the sametime.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2014, 08:57:30 PM »
If it's possible I think I'm even more confused.

Quote
If you want to do a tournament with 16k in starting chip for 60$ but you add the services of dealers at the table, you spread the cost of the dealer on the players instead of taking more rake. That's what the dealer addons is there for.  So you set your tournament to 13k for $60 Starting stack and you offer 3k more in chip with the dealer at the table for a $5 tips to them. This way you are able to offer dealer in your tournament without affecting much your cost and its not really costing much more to the players also. Still the players are free to not take it.

So ...... the players at a table get to decide if they want a dealer?  And everyone has to agree to it and cough up the extra $$ for the dealer?  Is that how it works?  I assume this is for a single-table tournament.  And what happens if not everyone decides to pay the extra?

This is the same thing you're talking about, Smokin420s?  Or different entirely?

Asegzamfire

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 11:06:26 PM »
Quote
If you want to do a tournament with 16k in starting chip for 60$ but you add the services of dealers at the table, you spread the cost of the dealer on the players instead of taking more rake. That's what the dealer addons is there for.  So you set your tournament to 13k for $60 Starting stack and you offer 3k more in chip with the dealer at the table for a $5 tips to them. This way you are able to offer dealer in your tournament without affecting much your cost and its not really costing much more to the players also. Still the players are free to not take it.

So ...... the players at a table get to decide if they want a dealer?  And everyone has to agree to it and cough up the extra $$ for the dealer?  Is that how it works?  I assume this is for a single-table tournament.  And what happens if not everyone decides to pay the extra?
[/quote]

The dealer is provide no matter what, the players have the right to not take the Dealer bonus if they don't want to. It change nothing. so you can have like 15 tables with dealers. The dealer are paid anyway. When the player get to the table, he get 13k for starting stack and the dealer offer 3k more for $5. If the player don't want it, its not a problem, he simply start with 13k when all the others players start with 16k. Its kind of the same as the usual Addon at the break; some take it and other don't. Its simply done at the start of the tournament (before a player play his first hand). 

As for the program, we are using the addon section for this kind of addon. But it prevent us from offering and Addon at the break. We can, its just not compile in the summary. Which is not good for us. A 4th section maybe called "Bonus" would solve that problem.

mcfrojd

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 03:43:26 AM »
Why not offer the dealerbouns at initial buy in, and not at the table, then you could have 2 buy in profile like:

Name: Regular Buy In
Buy in: $60
Chips: 13000
Rake: "your normal rake"

and/or

Name: Buy In with Dealerbonus
Buy in: $65
Chips: 16000
Rake: "your normal rake"
DealerRake: $5

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 09:04:52 AM »
I see (I think).  So ultimately the issue is separating the "bonus" from the other add-ons.  It's a reporting issue.  You want to be able to see (or show) how many bonuses were purchased, how much $$ this added to the pot ($0 for you, actually, since it goes to the dealers, but others would want this), how many chips were added to the tournament because of this, etc.  Today you can use Add-on profiles to facilitate the *purchase* of bonus chips separately from other add-on(s), but there's no way to report the count/cash/chips separately from the other add-ons.

The TD would probably need (1) to be able to view the data on the Summary tab broken down by profiles; (2) add some layout tokens that allowed you to display the information per profile; and (3) add some formula variables to be able to access the various data by profile.

Am I going in the right direction?

Asegzamfire

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 02:38:10 PM »
Why not offer the dealerbouns at initial buy in, and not at the table, then you could have 2 buy in profile like:

Name: Regular Buy In
Buy in: $60
Chips: 13000
Rake: "your normal rake"

and/or

Name: Buy In with Dealerbonus
Buy in: $65
Chips: 16000
Rake: "your normal rake"
DealerRake: $5


This way the Addon will go in the Rake section, and its not going for the house but for the Tips share of the dealers. Even if you have a separate name for the rake it all goes at the same place in the summary, you can only see the difference in the Stats Tab.

I see (I think).  So ultimately the issue is separating the "bonus" from the other add-ons.  It's a reporting issue.  You want to be able to see (or show) how many bonuses were purchased, how much $$ this added to the pot ($0 for you, actually, since it goes to the dealers, but others would want this), how many chips were added to the tournament because of this, etc.  Today you can use Add-on profiles to facilitate the *purchase* of bonus chips separately from other add-on(s), but there's no way to report the count/cash/chips separately from the other add-ons.

The TD would probably need (1) to be able to view the data on the Summary tab broken down by profiles; (2) add some layout tokens that allowed you to display the information per profile; and (3) add some formula variables to be able to access the various data by profile.

Am I going in the right direction?

Exactly!!

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2014, 03:56:41 PM »
Added to my to-do list.

IBuyCars

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 09:20:26 AM »
I do this for most of my tournaments with the buy in profiles and rakes, its very simple create a rake for Bonus Chips / Dealer Add-Ons, buy-in profile with and with-out the Bonus Chips / Dealer Add-Ons rake, and offer it to the players when they register for the tournament. We give the player the extra chips at the time of registration.

Asegzamfire

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 04:03:04 PM »
The Thing with doing a buyin with addon and not, even if you make it on another name for the rake, its all show at the same place in the summary. I mean the rake for the house and the Bonus will all show as buyin under rake. We need to have it separate, that's why we use the addon for that. Like i said its not a big deal to not have it, it would be a good add or simply a better way to details the summary.

Smokin420s

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Re: Bonus chips during buy-in
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 09:20:29 PM »
sorry been out of touch. yes separate the bonus for the dealers instead of being included as a house rake and better accountability. here in p-town we are not allowed to take a rake per-say. but we have a daily member fee. bonus chips is an option function.