Author Topic: Bubble designation  (Read 2104 times)

itguy11

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Bubble designation
« on: March 18, 2013, 11:21:15 AM »
I am trying to figure out how to accurately use "Bubble" and "Times Placed" in my stats. When I see the statline for "Bubble" is shows 0 bubbles for all users, and when I choose "Times Placed" it shows everyone placed as many times as they bought in. I assume this is because of our prize allocations where we award points to all users, but cash only to the top 3 or 4 depending on how many players in the tournament.
Does anyone know how I can accurately use these stats given my league setup?

Magic_fubu

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 12:24:00 PM »
The "InTheMoney" token should work for you, if I'm understanding you correctly. You're wanting the cash bubble, which may be 4th or 5th, depending on if there's 3 or 4 places paid. to get the bubble, use this: InTheMoney + 1
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Corey Cooper

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 02:42:07 PM »
The software determines who is "in the money" and who "bubbles" based on prizes that are awarded based on rank.  That's the only way it can determine who monied and who bubbled.

If you're using prizes to award points for places beyond the money spots, I would suggest not doing that and using the Points for Playing formula instead.  I (or others here) would be happy to help set it up for you.

itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 09:03:13 AM »
Thanks...let me work on this and see if I can get it. Haven't played with modifying the formulas at all. I'll keep you posted on how this goes,

Magic_fubu

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 10:45:42 PM »
Definitely do! As Corey stated, there are quite a few of us that pay attention to the boards, and are more than happy to lend helping hands when needed for whatever need may pop up :)
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itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 11:08:55 AM »
Been using TD for years...and never had to adjust any actual formula. I made up templates (see below) using the number of players as the name of the template, and just load that template in when we know how many players. This shows the cash and points and has worked well for years. Except now I want to add the bubble...and the way I've done it messes up the "Bubble" result in TD.
Could I get some help using the "Points for Playing" formula? The league awards cashes (6-19 players, 3 places - 20-30 players, 4 cashes) to the winners, but all players get points depending on finish. 1st person out gets 5 pts, 2nd 10pts, etc. The more players we have, the more points the winner will get. We also give 2 pts per hit.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 02:06:59 PM »
Been using TD for years...and never had to adjust any actual formula. I made up templates (see below) using the number of players as the name of the template, and just load that template in when we know how many players. This shows the cash and points and has worked well for years. Except now I want to add the bubble...and the way I've done it messes up the "Bubble" result in TD.
Could I get some help using the "Points for Playing" formula? The league awards cashes (6-19 players, 3 places - 20-30 players, 4 cashes) to the winners, but all players get points depending on finish. 1st person out gets 5 pts, 2nd 10pts, etc. The more players we have, the more points the winner will get. We also give 2 pts per hit.

1st person gets 5 pts, 2nd gets 10pts ... We also give 2 pts per hit.

Based on just that, it's pretty easy:

(position * 5) + 2

itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2013, 01:58:52 PM »
Not sure I understand that formula. The +2 seems like it will always add +2 only. If a person knocks out 10 people...how does the +2 correlate?
I ran the formula but saw no changes in the stats...am I placing this in the correct area? I assume the formula should be placed in "Stats", "Edit Profile", then in the "Scoring" field...correct?
I should mention that when I say first person gets 5pts...I mean first person knocked out. So in a 10 player tournament, the winner would get 50, 2nd gets 45, 3rd gets 40...etc down to 10th getting 5pts. If there are 15 people in the tournament, it changes...1st would get 75 pts, 15th place would get 5pts.
I give 2pts for each person they knock out also.
The original problem is trying to setup the scoring so that "Bubble" would show in my stats properly. Right now because I give cash and points, no one bubbles. I want this stat to show who bubbles on the cash prize.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 02:08:04 PM by itguy11 »

Magic_fubu

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 03:00:05 PM »
i think it is supposed to be "2 * nh" instead of just two, since you're looking for 2 points per hit.
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itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 03:05:27 PM »
That's correct. But the "position*5" is not correct as it would give first place only 5 pts and last place pts * number of players. I almost need a reverse point total. "#of players * 5" for first, (# of players -1)*5" for 2nd and so on...but that defeats the purpose of streamlining it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 03:12:19 PM by itguy11 »

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 08:45:48 PM »
i think it is supposed to be "2 * nh" instead of just two, since you're looking for 2 points per hit.

Correct.  I goofed.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 08:49:21 PM »
That's correct. But the "position*5" is not correct as it would give first place only 5 pts and last place pts * number of players. I almost need a reverse point total. "#of players * 5" for first, (# of players -1)*5" for 2nd and so on...but that defeats the purpose of streamlining it.

Using the position variable is correct.  You're thinking of rank (or r).  First place has a rank of 1, and thus would get only 5 points using the formula rank * 5.  But position depends on the number of players in the tournament.  It is equivalent to n - r + 1, or number of players minus rank plus 1.  The first person to bust out of any tournament (regardless of the number of players) has a position of 1.  In a 20 player tournament, first place has a position of 20, since they are the 20th person to bust out (ignoring the fact that they don't actually bust out in 1st place).

itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 06:58:41 AM »
Sorry Corey...I'm confused. If I do get this formula correct, and each person still gets points....will my "Bubble" and "Times Placed" fields be accurate? Maybe this will help somewhat. I've attached a backup of my tournament file. The goal is to make it so that the 2 fields ("Bubble" and "Times Placed") are correct in the stats. The league is in it's 7th year and going well....just trying to automate a process I currently do manually.
If you need to see the current stats, I have them all on our league website, www.cellardwellerpoker.com/standings.htm. Enjoy the site while you're there.

Corey Cooper

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 10:10:04 AM »
The formula isn't going to determine who is in the money and who is on the bubble.  "In the money" and "on the bubble" (columns "Times Placed" and "Bubble" on the Stats tab) are determined by prizes.  The software looks at your Prizes configuration and determines the prize that is awarded to the lowest ranking player.  So, if you have prizes configured for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th, then the software determines that anyone ranking 5th place or better is "in the money".  Anyone ranking 6th place is "on the bubble".  Note that it doesn't matter if you award cash, points, or neither.  What the software looks at is the "Recipient".  If "Recipient" is set to "Rank n", then it is considered when determining "In the money" and "on the bubble".

I looked at your most recent tournament and it is as I suspected.  You're awarding 20 prizes, 19 of which are to the specific ranks 1 through 19.  Only ranks 1 through 3 get cash, but that doesn't matter to the software.  It's the fact that they are getting a prize awarded to a specific rank that matters in computed "in the money" and "on the bubble".

So, you should delete prizes for 4th through 19th place.  Then remove the points from prizes for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  On the Game tab, set "Points for hit" to 0.  Then set "Points for Playing" to:

(position * 5) + (nh * 2)

Once you do this you will see that the points each player has earned remains exactly the same.  But it's much easier to maintain because you don't need 20 prizes, you only need 4.  And once you do this for all of your existing tournaments and re-save them, your "In the money" and "On the bubble" stats should be correct.  I'll attach the tournament I updated as an example.

itguy11

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Re: Bubble designation
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 11:00:03 AM »
I'll try this tonight....thanks for all your help. Best program and support out there by far!