Author Topic: League Points Formula  (Read 2036 times)

bmontana33

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League Points Formula
« on: October 17, 2012, 03:42:23 AM »
I'm starting a league in January and I'm trying to finalize all the details. I've been searching and searching for the best scoring system for our league. I think below seems like a pretty fair calculation, our game can vary between 8-20 players on any given night. 

10*(SQRT(number of players/place of finish))

Our league will have varying games (All no limit holdem) but sometimes rebuys sometimes not, sometimes bounties sometimes not...
I would like to deduct points for any player that rebuys/add-ons in a tourney (when we have rebuy tourneys its unlimited rebuys/add-ons for a set period, usually 3 rounds), but using the above formula I'm not sure the best way to incorporate point deductions for rebuys/add-ons?

Then, I was curious to peoples thoughts for bounty tourneys, there will only be a handfull of these. For all-non bounty tourneys I don't want to reward people for knocking a player out, but wasn't sure about adding points for knocking players out for just bounty tourneys?

Lastly (I think), how would I write the formula for TD3 for each of these 3 scenarios; by itself, with losing points for rebuy/add-ons, and with gaining points for knock-outs (incase we choose to go this route for bounty tournies).

Thanks. And please give any additional input that you think would help. For example, I'm not really interested in making point calculations higher for higher buyins, our game is a constant buy-in except that bounty tournies are $5 more for bounty's, and the last tourney of the year is slightly higher stakes. Just want to make it as fair as possible since we may not have the same number of players for every game. I like the fact that you should get roughly the same points for making it through say 75% of the field in a 8 person tourney as you would in a 20 person tourney, but the winners of a larger tourney get more points than the winners of a smaller tourney as it is more dificult to beat out more players.

Magic_fubu

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 10:12:10 AM »
Quote
10*(SQRT(number of players/place of finish))

This is pretty simple:
Code: [Select]
10 * (sqrt ( n / r ))
Quote
I would like to deduct points for any player that rebuys/add-ons in a tourney

This is going to depend on how many points (or even fractions of a point) you want to deduct. If just a point per rebuy and/or add on, you will do add this to the end of the following:
Code: [Select]
- (nr + na) . Say, though you want to subtract 0.75 for rebuy and 0.50 for addons... This changes it to
Code: [Select]
- (0.75 * nr) - (0.5 * na)  Obviously, if you want to make it be different, all you would have to do is to change the proper number

Quote
for non-bounty tournaments, you don't need to add anything to the formula. For bounty tournaments, there's two ways to go about it. One would be to put points per hit in the appropriate box on the game window. Otherwise, you can add this to the formula for only the tournaments it applies to:
Code: [Select]
+nh
I hope this helps you out! I don't personally have any suggestions beyond what you've asked for, as I know everyone usually likes their own methods.

EDIT: combining all parts of the formula, we get this
Code: [Select]
10 * (sqrt ( n / r )) - (0.75 * nr) - (0.5 * na) for non-bounty tournaments and for bounty tournaments,
Code: [Select]
10 * (sqrt ( n / r )) - (0.75 * nr) - (0.5 * na) + nh. If you want to award something other than 1 point per knockout recorded, just give it the appropriate coefficient, like I've shown with the rebuys and addons.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:15:04 AM by Magic_fubu »
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Corey Cooper

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 10:26:38 AM »
Adding to Magic_fubu's comments, the part where you subtract points for rebuying and/or adding-on can be included in the formula whether or not your tournament allows rebuys and/or add-ons.  They'll just have a value of 0 in the case where there are no rebuys or add-ons, so they won't affect the outcome of the formula.

To add points for knocking players out you would usually just use the "nh" or "numberOfHits" variable (they're the same; "nh" is just an alias of "numberOfHits").  But, if you're only interested in adding to a player's points for knocking someone out during a bounty tournament, then you can use the "numberOfBountiesWon" (or "nb") variable instead.

bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 11:19:16 AM »
Thanks guys so much. It seems so simple when its spelled out for you, it's just a matter of figuring out the variables and placing them in the formula  :) I just now have to figure out how many points to deduct for rebuys/add-ons and how many points to add for bounties for bounty tournies...I might have to do some calculations to see what looks the best (.25, .5, .75, 1) I'm guessing one of those.

Magic_fubu

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 11:30:21 AM »
Glad to have had helped, and that it made sense :) Been a while for me to play around, having moved half way across the country... Now to just get back in the game  8)
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bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 10:20:58 PM »
Just a clarification for rebuy tournies. Should the formula read:

A. 10*(SQRT((n/r) - (nr+na)))

or

B. 10*(SQRT(n/r)) - (nr+na)

With 20 players and no rebuys or addons a 10th place finish would recieve 14.14214 points.
With 20 players and 1 rebuy and no add-on a 10th place finish using A would recieve 10 points while using B would recieve 13.14214.

Option A obviously penalizes players more for rebuys and add-ons and in theory I suppose either could work pending how much the league wanted to penalize players. That said, I was curious how the formula is supposed to read. Thanks

« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 08:58:43 AM by bmontana33 »

bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 09:39:09 AM »
Just a clarification for rebuy tournies. Should the formula read:

A. 10*(SQRT((n/r) - (nr+na)))

or

B. 10*(SQRT(n/r)) - (nr+na)

With 20 players and no rebuys or addons a 10th place finish would recieve 14.14214 points.
With 20 players and 1 rebuy and no add-on a 10th place finish using A would recieve 10 points while using B would recieve 13.14214.

Option A obviously penalizes players more for rebuys and add-ons and in theory I suppose either could work pending how much the league wanted to penalize players. That said, I was curious how the formula is supposed to read. Thanks



After thinking about it all night (and doing further calculations), I'm pretty sure that the correct (or I should say best/most fair) formula is B. By using formula A, the amount of points lost for a rebuy/add-on are not consistent throughout the finishing places. With formula A a 10 man tourney with 1 rebuy for each player, a player that finishes in 1st place would lose 1.62 points, if finsihing in 2nd place would lose 2.36 points, and 10th place would lose 10 points. That doesn't seem right. So I think I'm going to move forward with formula B, unless someone has a solid reasoning for A or another adjustment to B.

Thanks again!

Corey Cooper

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 11:18:45 AM »
Sounds right to me.  In B, you're making the loss of points from add-ons & rebuys more consistent with the points they receive for their ranking.

Magic_fubu

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 11:39:20 AM »
In the interest of fairness & reasons you stated, I would go with B as is. My only concern is that if you have someone with 12 total rebuys/addons, do you really want them to lose almost all their points by losing 12, when they would normally receive 13-15? I would be a proponent of going with 3/4 or 1/2 point per occurrence, personally.
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bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 12:57:00 PM »
In the interest of fairness & reasons you stated, I would go with B as is. My only concern is that if you have someone with 12 total rebuys/addons, do you really want them to lose almost all their points by losing 12, when they would normally receive 13-15? I would be a proponent of going with 3/4 or 1/2 point per occurrence, personally.

12 rebuys/add-ons by 1 player in 1 tourney? Maybe in some tourneys around the world, but not in our game. We probably average about 4 rebuys total during any given tourney of 10 players. I think the most any 1 player has rebought in a single tourney is 3 and that has only happened once. To be honest, its rare that we have any add-ons, but I was going to have it in the formula just incase. So in a 10 person tourney, if someone rebought 3 times and still finished in last place ( :-[), they would still receive 7 league points. Our league is going to consist of 11 tourneys and only the top 7 scores will be counted towards player of the year rankings. So even if someone had the worst night in our games history and rebought 10 times and still managed last place, he would get 0 points and could drop that score for player of the year standings (assuming they show up to more than 7 games)

I did spend some time considering 1/2 or 3/4 points, but I'm fairly certain I will be sticking with 1 point per rebuy. I do appreciate your opinions though.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 12:59:12 PM by bmontana33 »

Magic_fubu

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 01:39:52 PM »
Not a problem... I know that in some of the games I've seen with 20 people, unless we restricted rebuys and addons, we have seen upwards of 10-15 rebuys from people. Given what you mentioned, the one point per should work out just fine.
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bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 01:52:18 PM »
Not a problem... I know that in some of the games I've seen with 20 people, unless we restricted rebuys and addons, we have seen upwards of 10-15 rebuys from people. Given what you mentioned, the one point per should work out just fine.

I certainly wouldn't complain if our players tried pusing things and bought in more times...just means a bigger purse for the winners  :)

bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 09:26:58 PM »
Now that I have my formula figured out, I'm assuming that I place the formula on the game tab under the points for playing box. Is that all I have to do? I plan on running some simulations to make sure everything is running smoothly before the start of the league, but thought I would save myself some grief by asking first.

Also, I plan on using only the top 7 out of 11 scores for each player for the league. Do I just go into the files later and manually drop the low scores or is there a way for TD3 to do that for me? I'm not sure if its all part of the export tab, I haven't played around at all with that yet. I am keeping a running leaderboard on a website for league points, I wasn't sure if its easier for me to just manually put the info into the website, or if there is some trick with exports.

Again, I apologize as I haven't fiddled around at all with exports yet.   

Corey Cooper

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 10:41:36 AM »
Now that I have my formula figured out, I'm assuming that I place the formula on the game tab under the points for playing box. Is that all I have to do? I plan on running some simulations to make sure everything is running smoothly before the start of the league, but thought I would save myself some grief by asking first.

Yep.

Also, I plan on using only the top 7 out of 11 scores for each player for the league. Do I just go into the files later and manually drop the low scores or is there a way for TD3 to do that for me? I'm not sure if its all part of the export tab, I haven't played around at all with that yet. I am keeping a running leaderboard on a website for league points, I wasn't sure if its easier for me to just manually put the info into the website, or if there is some trick with exports.

Make sure you save each tournament separately.  Then on the Stats tab:

(this assumes version 3 of the TD)
1 Press the Edit Profiles button
2 Press the New button
3 Give the Profile a name and press the OK button
4 The new Profile will already be selected; press the Edit button next to the Tournament Scores formula
5 Change the formula to:

points

6 Press the OK button
7 Press the Edit button next to the Overall Scores formulas
8 Change the formula (for the first Overall Score formula) to:

sum(top(7, scores))

9 Press the OK button
10 Press the OK button

When you've run and saved a few tournaments, press the Refresh Stats button and select your profile.

bmontana33

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Re: League Points Formula
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2012, 11:09:39 AM »
Thanks so much Corey, I appreciate the guidance.