Author Topic: rebuy/add-on - original positions  (Read 3583 times)

RichieD

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
rebuy/add-on - original positions
« on: July 17, 2012, 06:42:08 AM »
Hi,
I run a tournament where everyone (including those who bust out) get a top-up (rebuy/add-on) after the first hour of the tournament - if I use TD as intended, players get moved about as the tables get re-balanced etc, but I'd like to be able to return everyone to their original positions when the add-on/rebuy/top-up occurs (otherwise I end up spending the next 10-15 minutes trying to get everyone seated/chips moved!) .
So, the suggestion is: Add a mechanism whereby the original seating plan can be saved/restored.

Mahound

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • THE ONLY time i get screwed is when i play poker!
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 07:43:22 AM »
Sounds to me that you are busting out the players before they have stated they want to re-buy.
A player can't be eliminated from the game if they still have options to re-buy or add-on,  so instead of busting them out and letting them re-enter the game, just do the re-buy.
The only time a player will be eliminated, will be when they refuse to take, or have no further options to take a re-buy or add-on

Add ons are best done during a break and this usually done after the re-buy period has ended.
Add-ons are usually available to all players regardless of their chip stack size. Once this period has passed any player who loses their chips will be eliminated.

I don't think that there is a way to reset the tables to a previous time in a game.

If you do bust a player out by mistake, you can always click on the option to not move players.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 07:45:24 AM by Mahound »

Corey Cooper

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5402
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 09:35:10 AM »
I'm curious about this ... why do you move players back to their original seats?

RichieD

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 08:41:18 AM »
I'm curious about this ... why do you move players back to their original seats?
Purely from a logistical point of view.

The scenario is:
Tournament start - players sit down at random seat as defined by TD.
Players bust out and tables rebalanced by TD
First break occurs (1 hour after start) - ALL players INCLUDING the busted out players get an add-on

The first time I tried this, I re-bought-in the busted out players, however this then resulted in the short stacked re-bought in players all being seated on the same table(s) - no problem, simply randomise the seating... however, this then resulted in mass confusion and wasted 15 minutes trying to get everyone re-seated!!  >:(

The second time... I didn't bust players out in TD before the break, and had to manually re-balance the tables, at the first break I asked everyone to return to original positions as shown by TD (players will always remember where they first started - the return to their original seats took less than 5 minutes). All players then got the add-on/re-buy. Subsequent rounds then used TD as intended with automatic table balancing etc.

All i''m suggesting, is that it be possible to save/restore the seating plan so that I can use TD throughout the tournament.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 08:43:45 AM by RichieD »

Corey Cooper

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5402
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 09:50:21 AM »
Interesting.  I can certainly see the issue.

Others out there: if you have a rebuy tournament, do you force players to wait until a specific time (a break perhaps) to be able to rebuy?  If so, how do you handle seating at the rebuy?

Mahound

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • THE ONLY time i get screwed is when i play poker!
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 04:43:46 AM »
In any re-buy tournament that i have done, the players have to buy in as soon as they are busted.  Only ever seen this done at a poker league, and then the re-entry didn't cost anything.
Seems that this is just making more work for your self.

T-Bone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 06:32:34 AM »
Bust out = rebuy immediately or go home!
If it ain't naked, deep-fried or poker-related, I ain't interested!

JimG

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 08:04:16 AM »
I run two tournaments a week with 25 to 35 players.... We always have to rebuy/addon immediately or leave.

JimG

RichieD

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 05:36:36 AM »
In any re-buy tournament that i have done, the players have to buy in as soon as they are busted.  Only ever seen this done at a poker league, and then the re-entry didn't cost anything.
Indeed, I am running a poker league tournament - unfortunately we are mandated to follow the tournament format which stipulates the (free) rebuy/add-on after the first hour.

Mahound

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • THE ONLY time i get screwed is when i play poker!
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 10:44:41 AM »
In any re-buy tournament that i have done, the players have to buy in as soon as they are busted.  Only ever seen this done at a poker league, and then the re-entry didn't cost anything.
Indeed, I am running a poker league tournament - unfortunately we are mandated to follow the tournament format which stipulates the (free) rebuy/add-on after the first hour.

Once the break starts and everyone had re-bought or added on. Just randomise the seating again for all players.
I can see you having the same problem if people aren't rejoining the game straight away. 


macacan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
    • Chorley Poker League
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 10:59:06 AM »
Not a good way to run a game IMO.

Having players sat out waiting to re-buy back in strange and unfair.

So if a player is all in first hand and loses then he can just wait for the re-buy (lets say 1 hour).
This would encourage players to go for it, if they lose and go out what the heck, just wait for the re-buy, lose no hands or blinds,
the players left in will not get dealt the correct cards, the game as changed completely then will change back again later.
Players will be playing with average chip stack being wrong, there would be imaginary chips on the table that can not be won
or do not have to put blinds in.

I would be looking at changing this ASAP, TD does it the way it does because that is the correct way to do it.


 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

RichieD

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 02:42:26 PM »
Not a good way to run a game IMO.
Maybe, but its the format adopted by a major UK Poker League.

Having players sat out waiting to re-buy back in strange and unfair.
Why unfair? gives beginners a second bite of the apple.

So if a player is all in first hand and loses then he can just wait for the re-buy (lets say 1 hour).
This would encourage players to go for it, if they lose and go out what the heck, just wait for the re-buy, lose no hands or blinds,
the players left in will not get dealt the correct cards, the game as changed completely then will change back again later.
Players will be playing with average chip stack being wrong, there would be imaginary chips on the table that can not be won
or do not have to put blinds in.
I don't understand how you think that the average chip stack will be wrong.. or that there will be imaginary chips? The number of chips is constant until the first break, then the chip count increases by the addon/rebuy which every player gets (same value of chips for rebuy and addon). There is a distinct DISADVANTAGE to coming back after busting out.. namely you are horrendously short stacked normally meaning you normally only survive one big/small blind before running out of chips!

I would be looking at changing this ASAP, TD does it the way it does because that is the correct way to do it.
As posted, we are mandated to follow the format.

macacan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
    • Chorley Poker League
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 03:49:32 AM »
Not a good way to run a game IMO.
Maybe, but its the format adopted by a major UK Poker League.

Having players sat out waiting to re-buy back in strange and unfair.
Why unfair? gives beginners a second bite of the apple.

So if a player is all in first hand and loses then he can just wait for the re-buy (lets say 1 hour).
This would encourage players to go for it, if they lose and go out what the heck, just wait for the re-buy, lose no hands or blinds,
the players left in will not get dealt the correct cards, the game as changed completely then will change back again later.
Players will be playing with average chip stack being wrong, there would be imaginary chips on the table that can not be won
or do not have to put blinds in.
I don't understand how you think that the average chip stack will be wrong.. or that there will be imaginary chips? The number of chips is constant until the first break, then the chip count increases by the addon/rebuy which every player gets (same value of chips for rebuy and addon). There is a distinct DISADVANTAGE to coming back after busting out.. namely you are horrendously short stacked normally meaning you normally only survive one big/small blind before running out of chips!

I would be looking at changing this ASAP, TD does it the way it does because that is the correct way to do it.
As posted, we are mandated to follow the format.


I am not having a go at you RichieD, I am just shocked at the way the UK poker league run this.
I have never played or never heard a game that you can re-buy after sitting out for a period of time.

Unfair

Lets make it simple:

10 players, starting stack 1000, average chip stack 100.
5 players or knocked out the first hand.
Now we have a game for a hour that is 5 handed with average chips 200, but there are 5 players
waiting to come back in with 1000 chips each, so them chips can not be won by any of the 5 players that are playing.
The 5 players that are sat out have in reality 1000 chips, they can not lose any of these chips till they re-enter in 1 hours time.
When the players re-enter it completely changes the game again, it goes from a 5 seater to a 10 seater.
All poker players know that you have to play the game with the information that you have, your own chip stack, how many players on your table,
what their chip stacks are, the average chip stack, what the blinds are and obviously other standard things.

I have played in some of the pub poker games in the UK and apart from the odd few they are badly run, one big exception is a forum member on here,
his games seem to be run very well.
IMO this is one of the worst ways of letting new players have a chance, before tourney tuition and learning by being hurt is the best way.


Just a question for you, if all players except 1 was knocked out in the first 5 minutes what would happen.
The 1 player left in could not continue because there are no other chips on the table.

Just a thought, once your game is set up and all players are seated, you could then save that game under a other name,
run your game as normal, then when you want every body seated as they were just bring in the saved game, set the level to the right one
then continue, think this is the quickest option.

Again I am not having a go at you, if games are run in a certain way and players enter them then that's fine, it's good to discuss them though.

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

RichieD

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2012, 06:26:55 PM »
Quote
Lets make it simple:

10 players, starting stack 1000, average chip stack 100.
5 players or knocked out the first hand.
Now we have a game for a hour that is 5 handed with average chips 200, but there are 5 players
waiting to come back in with 1000 chips each, so them chips can not be won by any of the 5 players that are playing.
The 5 players that are sat out have in reality 1000 chips, they can not lose any of these chips till they re-enter in 1 hours time.
When the players re-enter it completely changes the game again, it goes from a 5 seater to a 10 seater.
Your 'simplistic' view doesn't match reality! - in the tournament format used, players start with 2000 chips, addon/rebuy after 1 hour is 1500 chips, blinds at the +1hour point are now 200/400. Newly rebought-in (reloaded) players are very short stacked in comparison with remaining players and inveitably have to make a "move" within a few hands or risk heamoraging all of their remaining chips - it's a format tried and tested (and it DOES work) - the format is used in pubs and is designed to keep punters in the premisses as long as possible!!


Quote
I have played in some of the pub poker games in the UK and apart from the odd few they are badly run, one big exception is a forum member on here,
his games seem to be run very well.
A little unfair! perhaps you should visit a few more events!

Quote
Just a question for you, if all players except 1 was knocked out in the first 5 minutes what would happen.
The 1 player left in could not continue because there are no other chips on the table.
Extremely unlikely (we have 50+ players!) - even if it did happen, the rebuy/addon would then occur immediately rather than +1hour - the game would then continue.

Quote
Just a thought, once your game is set up and all players are seated, you could then save that game under a other name,
run your game as normal, then when you want every body seated as they were just bring in the saved game, set the level to the right one
then continue, think this is the quickest option.
Nice idea, I did try this, unfortunately it seems TD doesn't save seating layout - hence the suggestion!

Magic_fubu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
    • View Profile
Re: rebuy/add-on - original positions
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2012, 10:40:08 PM »
If you save the tournament AFTER seating, continue and save under a different file, before you start the tournament, it will. I have had a need to revert back to an earlier state and by doing what was suggested, had no issues.
My cowboys shot down your rockets
---
If you send a request to me please send that you got me from here w/your TD name to confirm. Thanks!