The Tournament Director Forums

Main => Beta Testing => Topic started by: Corey Cooper on December 21, 2007, 04:16:15 PM

Title: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 21, 2007, 04:16:15 PM
Here's beta 2 of version 2.5.  Not a whole lot of changes because I wanted to get a quick fix out for the problem with the Tournament screens updating - without it the program wasn't much use.

See changes in beta 2 below.  For information on beta 1 and changes since 2.4.3, see http://thetournamentdirector.net/forums/index.php?topic=1026.0

Edit: Version 2.5 beta 2 is no longer available.  See this topic for info on 2.5 beta 3:
http://thetournamentdirector.net/forums/index.php?topic=1091.0



Version 2.5 beta 2
======================================================================
New Features:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Added attribute "includeBreaks" to <rebuytimeleft> and
  <addontimeleft> tokens
- Added Restore feature, to restore backups

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bugs Fixed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Tournament screens were not updated properly
- Error when adding or editing database players
- Error when renaming columns on the Stats tab
- "r" formula variable (representing a player's rank) was set to
  the player's position (inverse of rank)
- Changed references to "Options tab" to "Game tab" in language files



Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 21, 2007, 06:26:32 PM
Wow, I was not that interested in the whole multiple monitor thing because I a monitor splitter and I kinda liked having the tourney display on my laptop while it was also sent to monitors (plus, still not sure how this function will work with a monitor splitter).

But, on my dual monitor PC, this new beta ROCKS.

That new "control" tab is wonderful!

I ran a mock tourney with about 16 people and had no problems under brief review.

At first it was odd because I couldn't figure out how to shut down the tourney screen, until I accidently figured out that the "close/minimize" buttons appear when you hover over them.

Only problem I had - and I am not certain it isn't a problem on my own settings, but I don't think so, is that after the tourney was over my post-tourney screen did not display.  It just kinda showed the main tourney screen with a "game over" message where the blinds usually are.

I have used this same screen set with my usual tourney in 2.4.3 and the post-tourney screen set appears.  Only difference is that I finished this tourney during level 1 (just busted everyone out in the first round) and maybe that threw something off because I have a screen set to use for each of the first 4 rounds.

One suggestion is that:

On the control tab it would be nice if in the screen control section you could choose "player ranking page" as one of the screens to display.

If I choose the "player rankings" from the top set of buttons on the main settings screen then the settings screen goes away.  I can bring it back of course, but it might be nice to display the player rankings without loosing the settings screen.

I know that I can view rankings myself by just going to the "Players" tab, but the one problem I have there is that:

My default tourney has all my players added to the tourney by default - I then buy-in the players that actually come.  I use this as a littel time saver.  Maybe I shouldn't do this, but it does help speed things up (don't have to add a person to the tourney before I buy them in).

Anyway, since I have a list of people in the players tab that haven't bought in (and won't because they didn't show up), then they appear as extra people in the list and it makes it harder to view the rankings.

Anyway, this new version is awesome and I didn't have any glitches in my one brief test.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 21, 2007, 06:49:14 PM
On the Preferences tab, in the Miscellaneous section, last item, uncheck "Auto close settings dialog".  This is checked by default.  When this is not checked, the main page buttons at the top of the Settings dialog change to the designated screen but do not close the Settings dialog.  This is why I did not add the built-in screens to the list of screens in the "Screen" section.

Documentation would help, I'm sure.  :)

About the screen not changing after the tournament was over: are you sure the screen wasn't locked?  This might have happened inadvertently if you changed screens manually while running the tournament.  With the default layout, main screen displays "GAME OVER" in place of the blinds when the tournament is over, so if the screen was locked on this screen, that's what you'll see...

Thank you for your feedback.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 21, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
Pretty sure my mock tourney not showing the post-tourney screen is a screen set issue and not a V2.5 issue.  Screen was not locked, but I tested a tourney and moved past my rebuy period (to round 5) and then busted people out and it went to the "post game" screen set as it is supposed to.

I might be able to figure that out.
with my screen sets I have, in following order:

default (main screen rotating with player ranking - meant to show up after round 4)
post-tourney (condition set to "after game")
Pre-tourney ("before game")
Round 1 (round 1)
Round 2 (round 2)
Round 3 (round 3)
Round 4 (round 4)

So, my first mock tourney seemed to be stuck in the Round 1 mode since that is when I finished the tourney.  It isn't stuck in default because then it would be rotating with the player ranking screen.  I would think that since post-tourney comes before round 1 in the order that it would first see the "after game" state and go to that screen, but somehow the "round 1" is a priority.  Might be some other conditions I have set.   But again, I don't think it is a V2.5 issue.

Thanks, this version really kicks TD up a notch.  That control tab is really awesome.  And unchecking that preferences box made it do what I wanted as you say.

Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: The_Duke on December 23, 2007, 06:19:25 AM
First real tourney run last night, and all my friends tought this software was a huge succes!


There's an small problem/bug in duallscreen that's also present in beta1 (alltough not mentioned earlyer, i forgot).

Setup: Laptop 1440x900 / ATI 9700 mobile.
External: SVHS cable / 1024x768
In prefrences set the resolution.
Option: Use extended... and Settings on main...

Status: Gamescreen displayed on laptop
Click on "Move to extended screen"; nothing happens and game screen is gone. Not on laptop, not on extended?!
Click on "Move to Main"; gamescreen displayed on laptop again.
Click on "Move to extended"; gamescreen is displayed on external screen.

So extended is only displayed when i switch back and forth between Home and extended once.
From here on it keeps on working okay. It's just the first extended activation where i have to switch twice before extended is displayed.


----------- Strange template behaviour ----------
I'll type it in exact the same step by step like i did.

1. load tournament TEST-A.
2. Create rules TEST
3. Save Rules and Tournament.
4. Create Tournament TEST-B
5. Load rules TEST
6. Change Rules TEST
7. Save Rules TEST
8. Load tourney TEST-A
* Then in rules the text is not displaying as last saved? The rules displayed are like before step 6 (the last change and save)? But i would expect the rules must have changed because both tourney's use the same RULES file that was changed and saved. So i'll force a load template....
9. Load rules TEST
* And now changes since last save are displayed correctly.

This same behaviour is also in prizes (and maybe also in layout templates, but not tested).
Saved changes in prizes templates do not show when other tournament is opened that uses the same prizes template. Only after a forced template load it shows that last correct saved version.

In short:
Change a prize-template and save. Then in other tournament that uses same prize-template the changes are not displayed untill forced prize-template load.

I hope it's clear what i ment to explain. Not real bugs, but for user friendly and logical behaviour i think there's much room for improvement to make here.

-------------
Suggestion:
There's maybe some room for improvement how to start a second tournament.
The first time i tought RESET would reset the scores and start a new second tournament, but with reset all scores from the first tourney where gone from stats! Aaarch... my fault.
The second time I clicked NEW, loaded same template as before (we wanted to play an exact same tourney again), and found many things where not cleared like buy-ins and some other things concerning players alltough i clicked something that stated "want to clear player buyins etc.".

Maybe it's me, but i find it a bit confusing how to start a new tournament without change on loosing first scores.
Do you need to create a NEW tourney with a NEW NAME for every tournament, or can you re-use the same template again and just clear the player buyins before start? Looks like REusing same template also REuses the last scores in that template, and is that a problem for the overall stats?

So my suggestion is to remove NEW and RESET buttons, and make some sort of wizard. Or make a "wizard mode" optional in preferences.
The wizard has only essential steps with questions if you want to.. Create, Start, Restart, or Reset a tourney?
In this wizard all of the steps could have info displayed on what they do so users can read and make the correct choice.
Just a suggestion...


With regards,

John.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 23, 2007, 02:02:50 PM
Duke,

I actually like the way the new and reset functions work and it is intuitive for me as someone who uses word processors a lot - so I will attempt an explanation of the TD file system in Word Processor terms.

When TD starts, much like a word processor, you are presented with a blank slate . . . a new tournament based on a default template (in a word processor that template is just a blank sheet of paper, in TD the template is a basic tournament, either one you defined, or the default one that comes with the program).

You can load a previous tournament just like you would open a word processing document that you have previously saved or you can start with a blank slate.

Once you work on a new tournament by changing something in say a layout tab or actually starting a tourney, then you need to save the tournament - just like if you had started a new document in a word processor.  You will notice that when you start TD with a blank new tourney that you are not presented with the "save" button, just "save as" because you need to give this new tournament a file name.  If you saved it, you would save over your default tourney name.  Once you have given it a name, then it is a separate file and you can reopen it or do what you want with it.

If you are running 2 tournaments in a night you can open TD which always starts with a default tourney set up (blank page), then as is best with any program, you save the file with a descriptive name (I always include the date in the tourney name, like Dec-23rd-couples-tourney.tdt and then run the tourney.  When you are done with this tourney you SAVE IT and close it, just as if you were working with a word processing file (to close it you either close TD or simply start a new tournament which effectively opens a new template with a fresh tourney).  So this saved and finished tourney file will sit in your file system forever so you can use it to generate statistics later on.

Then you start your second tourney by opening up a new tourney, "SAVING IT WITH A DIFFERENT NAME and then continuing with the tourney (you will need to buy-in players again and seat them again).

The best thing of course is to set up a tourney like you want it with layout and game info and events and such, but without players bought in or seated.  Then save this tourney and call it something like my-default-tourney.tdt and use this as your blank "default" template (go to "preferences" tab and click on "config files" and choose the tourney that you just saved as your "default" tourney), so that each time you open TD or hit the new button, you are presented with the look and feel and game preferences of that default tourney that you want in all your tourneys.

The reset button is just that, . . . it is meant to "reset" your current tourney back to its baseline state as if it was a default tourney - effectively whiping out all that has gone on within the tourney prior to that (takes clock back to zero and blinds back to level 1).  You DO NOT want to use this to start a new tourney after you have finished one because it will erase all that went on in your previous tourney.  But, it is very useful when you are running mock tourneys or you need to do a quick "do-over" if something happened very early on in your tourney and you want to start over.  When you reset the tourney, TD gives you the option of leaving current buy-ins and seating, so you don't have to go through that exercise all over - again, this is useful for running mock tourneys or in case you need to start over again if for some reason that situation came up.

I hope this helps you understand the file system a bit.

I am not a big fan of wizards, although I understand why some people like them for certain operations.

So the answer to your question is YES, you need to start a new tournament with a new name for each tourney, but YES you can use the same template over and over again - you just need to define that template so TD knows what to start with each time.  And YES if you reset a tourney you will overwrite the previous activity and lose that information for stats purposes (that's why you don't want to use "reset" for starting a new tourney).

So, what you want to do is get a tourney set up just like you want it to look like at the start of a tourney.  Then save this tourney and use it as your default template.  Then, each time you hit the "new" button for a new game or each time you open TD you are presented with your default template.

You may want to set up multipe "default" type tourneys (say a fast tourney with blinds going up quickly and a slow tourney with blinds going up slowly), so that you can always open up one of your default tourneys depending on the kind of tourney you feel like running.  You can only define on "default" file, but it doesn't stop you from creating a file that is called "my-default-turbo-tourney" and opening that file to start a new tourney (just remember to "save as" with a new file name so you don't overwrite you turbo template).
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 23, 2007, 04:57:32 PM
I'd like to emphasize some points:

- Just like in the description tandemrx gave, "tournaments" are to the TD what "documents" are to Microsoft Word (or any word processor).   When you want to start a new tournament, press the "New" button to get a new, blank slate.  Note that when you do this, the "Save" button is disabled and the Filename entry is empty.  That's because you have a new tournament (just like a new document) and must save it the first time using the "Save As" button, so that you can give it a filename.

- Just like a "document", each tournament lives in its own file.  If you load a document into a word processor, make changes, then save the document, you have overwritten the original document file with your changes.  Likewise with the TD, if you load a tournament, make a bunch of changes, and then save the tournament, you are overwriting the original file.  So if you load a tournament that has completed, press the Reset button, then save the tournament, you've lost that tournament history.  You have saved a tournament that has not yet been "run" (you've reset it to before the tournament started) over the tournament that was already completed.

- The "Reset" button actually has a more relevant use, one that sounds perfect for your 2-tournaments-each-night gig.  When your first tournament is over, make sure you have SAVED the tournament.  Now press the Reset button.  Now "Save As" the tournament and give it a new filename.  Now you've saved the first tournament you ran, in its completed state, and you now are ready to start a second tournament, and you've saved it with a new filename, so it won't destroy the results of the first tournament.  By pressing the Reset button, you were able to easily use all the settings already configured for the first tournament.  I assume you run a 2nd, identical tournament, using the same settings, and the same players.  This makes it real easy to get the 2nd tournament started.

- Templates also work very similarly to the way templates in a word processor work.  I can create a new document, load a template for say, writing a business letter that has my logo and letterhead on it, and then save it.  If I then open the template and make changes to the template, it does NOT change the document I created using the template.  That is because the document doesn't just "refer" to the template, it loaded data from the template into the document.  At that point, it basically "forgot" about the template - there is no "link" between the document and the template.  So changing the template won't affect the document.  It will only affect FUTURE documents that you create using the template.  The same is true with the TD.  When you load, for example, a Rounds template into a tournament and save the tournament, and then go change that Rounds template, the tournament file is not affected.  The tournament file has no "link" to that Rounds template.  All that happened when you loaded the Rounds template into your tournament is it replaced the Rounds in your tournament with the Rounds from the template.

I hope that helps clear up some confusion.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: The_Duke on December 23, 2007, 07:07:02 PM
Duke,

I actually like the way the new and reset functions work and.............
Thank you both for this detailed and clear explanation.
I do understand how it works now, and once you know this principal the buttons NEW and RESET are logical.
Untill now i didn't realise that templates where also used to store the data. I thought the data itself was written somewhere else and therefore the tournament templates could be saved over without overwriting tournament data.
I work with templates in M.. Office a lot; and i'm not used that templates are filled with data and saved as template again.
Because i assumed templates are never filled with data i got confused... Now thinking back about all this i realise there is only a load/save template, but there is not a save "datafile" option so i had to know....

Just curious; Is there a specific reason why templates and tournament datafiles are not saved seperate with different file extensions?

Again, thnx!

---------

And the strange profile behaviour as described in my post for prices, tables, etc.
Is that also my twisted mind that confuses me, or does it realy need some fixing?

--------

Okay, one more for the road...
If i load a tournament template i see in status bar the tournament template name, but i have no idea what other templates (tables, prices, etc) are used and active.
Is there a way to find out which active templates are loaded, or maybe possible to display the active template filename on top of each screen in the next version?


With regards,

The Duke.

ps: I realy like this software and i think its a great program! So my suggestions don not mean i don't like it, but i'm just trying to help you make it even better by letting you know what i experience from a pokersoftware noob's (what i am) point of view.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 23, 2007, 09:17:06 PM
I am not sure what you mean by "prices" . . . prizes?

Not sure what you mean by data being stored with the templates either.  Any layout templates or tourney templates shouldn't ever be written over unless you mean to do that (to change the template).  TD is extremely (almost too?) flexible because you can save templates of various sections or you can save an entire tourney with various templates loaded into it at your pleasure . . . and that final tourney can then act as your default tourney set up and you don't have to worry about the component templates.  You can then change anything you want by using either different templates or different tourneys altogether.

Maybe Corey can help you with that part, but I think TD does exactly what you want it to do in regards to templates.

One thing I might suggest is to not use the beta version if you are new to the TD software.  2.4.3 is the current regular version and it might be easier for you to start with and is still extremely full featured.  It doesn't support extended monitors, but depending on how you use it you can still send TD to multiple monitors - many people have done this for some time.  I will continue to use 2.4.3 sent to 2 or 3 monitors for tourneys until I figure out 2.5 myself (although so far I am running mock tourneys in 2.5 without problems).

It just might be easier to use a version that is well tested - just a thought.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: The_Duke on December 24, 2007, 08:16:10 AM
I am not sure what you mean by "prices" . . . prizes?
Erm.. yes.. hehe... prizes it is.
Was a late night here :P

Not sure what you mean by data being stored with the templates either.  Any layout templates or tourney templates shouldn't ever be written over unless you mean to do that (to change the template).  TD is extremely (almost too?) flexible
I'll try to explain a bit more...
My defination of a template is: A template will only store settings and layout, but not the data (playerscores) itself.
Take the wordproccessor example; The documents are opened as templates, but saved as documents... In these template files there is no typed document data. There is a seperate system between  templates and data information workflow. Saving a template in a word processor program is a whole different system then saving a document with data (read playerscores).
Now in "The Tournament Director" you load a template and save it under a different name, but still under same file extension and document type (it's still a "template"). And in that saved file there are settings, template layout, and score data.
I rather open a template and save the tournament file under different extension like the office templates work. But that's how i'm used to it, and just personal favorite...

By more flexible i ment:
If you store scoring data seperate you can store it in more readable files or even database. This way 3rth party tools can retrieve this data and can do lots of need stuff with it.
I know many of you use the services of pokersites by using export options. But i'm a PHP website builder and rather have realtime pokerdata on my own website and in my own designs, and offcourse i rather acces a file or database direct then do an export every minute. Also i believe that if the data is easy accesible many more people will create 3rth party tools for it so this data can be used for many more things and The Tournament Director can be extended with plugins.
One of the sites i run is a multigaming group, Just imagine the power if this gaming site can acces realtime pokerdata. Tournament Director might benefit from these extensions because the program grows and gets more options while others program them.

You're absolutely correct that the program itself with the templates and layout system is as flexible as can get.
But putting score data in 1 file with template settings makes it a little bit harder to reach, so here is still an oppertunity to increase flexability in my humble opinion.
Allmost every program i know (or programmed myself) that uses templates also stores data seperate. That's the reason i was wondering why the choice was made to not seperate it in this program.
And i was just thinking out loud... So please do not take these comments like a bad thing.. the way it's made now works, and works great !!!

One thing I might suggest is to not use the beta version if you are new to the TD software. 
It just might be easier to use a version that is well tested - just a thought.
Thnx for the suggestion.
All versions  work the same concerning template files, So also when used the final version i would have cleared my scores by mistake.
But allthough i'm new in the pokersoftware, i'm a Senior system operator and building PHP websites with MySQL db's for many years now.
So i'm not lost in the world of beta's or the many options a program offers, it's just that template load/save system that threw me of for a sec.

I realy need the dualscreen output, and therefore this beta versions.

Beta programs like this are great that it's made public available.
Sometimes somebody types for 5 hours in a forum and a whole new application option is born, and sometimes someone is wrong and all who read will learn.
I learned a lot this weekend :D

PS: excuses for the spelling mistakes.
PS2: I edited the post above (http://thetournamentdirector.net/forums/index.php?topic=1033.msg4866#msg4866 (http://thetournamentdirector.net/forums/index.php?topic=1033.msg4866#msg4866)) and made a part brown that still confuses me. Maybe someone can explain this part?
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 24, 2007, 10:03:31 AM
And please don't take attempts at explaining what you had questions about as criticisms of your computer knowledge - no doubt your are experienced there - just trying to help you understand the program and trying to figure out if the things you bring up are bugs in a beta version or feature misunderstandings.  Not trying to flame you  :-[.

And I agree that the final tournaments extension is the same as the extension of a default tourney (although some of the other templates, such as layouts have different extensions), but I think it is untrue that for say a MSWord template that the template does not contain data.  If you have graphics or other textual elements in a template, then that template contains data just as a default .tdt file contains layout graphics and other information.  There is very little difference between a .dot file and a .doc file other than MS doesn't give you the option to save over the template (at least when you open it as if starting say a new document).  Even Excel type database files contain their data within individual files.  Complex database programs no doubt handle data differently - that is certainly your world and not mine.  But, TD does give you a way to easily mine all the data from all your separate tourneys in one place (see the stats page and stats filters).

but that is neither here nor there and I understand your interest in mining the data, but you and Corey can discuss that issue.  Many users like the export function since they rely on the many poker league web sites to help them with mining the data (although the stats function of TD is pretty impressive and you might want to spend some time in there to make sure that you can't manipulate the data the way you want to in the stats and scoring data filters - its pretty cool).

The more difficult part of this thread is that you are wondering if problems you are experiencing are bugs in a beta version and it is very hard to figure that out since you are not familiar with the program - so I (or others) aren't sure if it is a bug, or if it is just because you are not familiar with the program.

So that is why I suggest trying the non-beta version - so that you don't confuse possible bugs that people are spending time trying to fleece out of a beta program from simple misunderstandings of program features.  Even if you plan to use extended monitor feature in the future, it wouldn't hurt to learn the program in V2.4.3 as almost all those features are still in V2.5.

And again, you can use previous version on multiple monitors (at least mirrored or split to other monitors).  I do it most every week, sending the TD program to 2 or 3 monitors off my laptop, and will continue to do so with the V2.4.3.  Only thing that 2.5 gives you is ability to separate controls from the main tourney screen and use "extended monitor" feature.  Players don't seem to have any problems with seeing the setting screen for the couple of seconds that it shows up while I bust out players or do rebuys - the tourney continues as it usually does - nothing is interupted.  Is there a reason why you can't use multiple monitors with the current version (2.4.3)?

Just a thought so that it will be easier for you to distinguish problems you might be having with bugs.

Happy holidays :)
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: The_Duke on December 24, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
Not trying to flame you  :-[.
I didn't take it that way. No hard feelings...
But i tought letting people know what IT level i am it helps the communication because then we know that some things don't need an explanation.

And I agree that the final tournaments extension is the same as the extension of a default tourney (although some of the other templates, such as layouts have different extensions), but I think it is untrue that for say a MSWord template that the template does not contain data.  If you have graphics or other textual elements in a template, then that template contains data just as a default .tdt file contains layout graphics and other information. 
Don't want to start a whole big thing over templates, so i'll try one short last reply about it.
We just have different interpretation of the term "data" here.  And offcourse you're right when you say every bit is data.
So what do i mean with tournament data then? With tournament data i mean dynamic data like scores and everything else that's recorded while playing a tournament. It doesn't matter if this is text, pictures or whatever. And with template data i mean all that is needed for settings and layout (the static stuff if you like the term).
But i suggest leaving this all behind us for now, and if Corey thinks it's worth trying in version v28b3 he can allway's take this post and contact me for details abut the idea. ;)

(although the stats function of TD is pretty impressive and you might want to spend some time in there to make sure that you can't manipulate the data the way you want to in the stats and scoring data filters - its pretty cool).
I sure was impressed by it. I made some html exports and after a little editing put them online where all the players gave lots of good compliments about this stats.
Also the freedom for calculations is absolutely fantastic. And believe me, even if this program will never be updated again it will probably still be the best in 2020.

The more difficult part of this thread is that you are wondering if problems you are experiencing are bugs in a beta version and it is very hard to figure that out since you are not familiar with the program - so I (or others) aren't sure if it is a bug, or if it is just because you are not familiar with the program.........
.....cut...Is there a reason why you can't use multiple monitors with the current version (2.4.3)?...
I think you misunderstood my suggestions as bug reports or misbehaviours.
The only things i mentioned as possible bugs are the "temples need forced reload" stuff (text marked brown now) and the external screen activation. The first problem also occuurs in the final version, and the latter is a beta version bug report.
For the rest i just type suggestions that comes to my mind while using the program... Free to throw away, or (like we do now) talk about to see if it realy could be a improvement.
Nothing to win or loose or get right or wrong. I believe this kind of discussions bring out the best ideas, and it's a good thing to learn from each other.

I can't use multiple monitors for practical reasons.
I'm just not able to carry my 19" monitors to the tourney room, but there's a 42" plasma present that i can use as external.

And a very happy X-mass to you to.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 26, 2007, 09:21:42 AM
Duke,

I will certainly leave the fancy database stuff to you and Corey and maybe something exciting will be added to the program in the future through your suggestions - so I certainly like that idea!

But your last comment of sending TD to a plasma has interest to me as I will soon run into that situation.

Why couldn't you send V2.4.3 to a plasma TV (since I will probably be using 2.4.3 for a good bit of time until 2.5 is well established)?

I would think the plasma has a vga plug or an S-video plug in that you could send TD out to with V2.4.3.  I am considering also adding a 26-inch LCD to my set-up to send TD to and planned to send it to the VGA-in of the TV.  Others have sent TD to TVs for some time (many threads about this).  I haven't tried it yet.

I would be interested to know what problems you anticipate as I may be called over to my neighbors to run a tourney and also don't want to haul any monitors, but I know he has a big plasma TV.   I was planning on just bringing a VGA cable and do what I usually do or possibly bring an S-video cable just to try out that connection type just in case I need to do that in the future.

Interested to know what issues you have had/anticipate with V2.4.3
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: NLT on December 26, 2007, 03:38:09 PM
After installing my plugin for the French language (http://nlt.celeonet.fr/TD/downloads/TournamentDirector25_pluginfr.exe) (not finished)

Then Preferences tab > Press Language button > Choose FR, Français

This error appears :
Code: [Select]
========== ERROR REPORT FOLLOWS ==========
'pagePreferences' est indéfini. [NLT: 'pagePreferences' is not defined] (PreferencesTab, TournamentPage: 4189)



Browser: Microsoft Internet Explorer
Browser Code Name: Mozilla
Browser Language: fr
Browser Minor Version: 0
Browser Version: 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30)
Cookies Enabled: true
CPU Class: x86
Date: 10:20:27 pm 12/26/2007
DB File: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5\db/td.db
DB Folder: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5\db
Home: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5
JScript Build: 5730
JScript Version: 5.7
Media Player Version: 10.0.0.4036
Online: true
Platform: Win32
System Language: fr
TD Version: 2.5.b2
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30)
User Language: fr

Then when I restart TD the change of language is well set.

Good continuation.
Cordially,
NLT
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on December 26, 2007, 03:49:06 PM
A couple points/questions:

1) Is it possible to display event messages anywhere but centered?  I can display status messages at the bottom of the screen, but not event messages.  Unfortunately this means in my layout that the event messages cover up the blinds, instead of the non-important stuff toward the bottom.

2) It seems the Conditions options for a layout cell don't differentiate between breaks and rounds.  A condition that should only be ture in the last 40 seconds of a break also occurs during a round.  I can work around it fine, but it seems to be an issue unless I'm missing something (quite possible).

3) Is there a way to assign points via the prizes and not have the prize be considered as "in the money"?  I want to give points to the Top 8, but not have my in the money sound trigger until we actually get to the prizes (top 3 or 4 normally).

4) Would it be possible to also have an option on the table movement dialog to display the seating chart instead of the table movement dialog, and if I can get greedy to have the players moving be highlighted somehow?  Since we don't show seat numbers, it would be easier to say to someone that you are now sitting between these two players.

Thanks Corey.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 26, 2007, 05:47:26 PM
I'll take a shot at a couple of your questions.

1.  on the "events" tab, see the "Msg Property Sets" button on the left.  This lets you control where the messages end up.  You can put them about anywhere on the screen.  You have to make sure that your font is small enough.  If it is too big (say >40, the message may take up the width of the screen (depending on the message size of course).

2.  For layouts, each cell has a property set for rounds and for breaks, but I am not sure what you are looking to do?  Do you want your layout to change 40 seconds before the end of a round??  It might be easier to have a message event or sound event occur than to have one cell change at 40 seconds before the end of a round.  But there is probably a way to do that as well, if nothing else by defining a different screen set.  Still, not sure if I know what you are trying to do.  Could you explain exactly what you want to happen?

3.  You can easily assign points for top 8, regardless of what prizes are.  I am trying to figure out why you want to make points a prize - so they can be displayed in the prizes token?  Could you explain why you want to assign points as a prize?

4.  Sounds like an interesting feature request.  I don't use the table movement by TD, so can't help you there at all.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on December 26, 2007, 06:42:05 PM
I'll take a shot at a couple of your questions.

1.  on the "events" tab, see the "Msg Property Sets" button on the left.  This lets you control where the messages end up.  You can put them about anywhere on the screen.  You have to make sure that your font is small enough.  If it is too big (say >40, the message may take up the width of the screen (depending on the message size of course).

Hadn't noticed that.  Yep, that's what I was looking for, thanks.

Quote
2.  For layouts, each cell has a property set for rounds and for breaks, but I am not sure what you are looking to do?  Do you want your layout to change 40 seconds before the end of a round??  It might be easier to have a message event or sound event occur than to have one cell change at 40 seconds before the end of a round.  But there is probably a way to do that as well, if nothing else by defining a different screen set.  Still, not sure if I know what you are trying to do.  Could you explain exactly what you want to happen?

I want the contents of a cell to change with 40 seconds to go in a break.  I can do that, but setting the conditions to be all breaks & time <= 40 also changes the cell contents in rounds as well.

Quote
3.  You can easily assign points for top 8, regardless of what prizes are.  I am trying to figure out why you want to make points a prize - so they can be displayed in the prizes token?  Could you explain why you want to assign points as a prize?

Why not?  The issue is that you can't specify a non-monetary prize without also giving some percentage of the pot.  I can overcome that by setting the prize to be 0.01% (effectively zero, especially with rounding), but TD treats that as a ranked monetary prize.

Quote
4.  Sounds like an interesting feature request.  I don't use the table movement by TD, so can't help you there at all.

Good luck.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 26, 2007, 06:49:46 PM
After installing my plugin for the French language (http://nlt.celeonet.fr/TD/downloads/TournamentDirector25_pluginfr.exe) (not finished)

Then Preferences tab > Press Language button > Choose FR, Français

This error appears :
Code: [Select]
========== ERROR REPORT FOLLOWS ==========
'pagePreferences' est indéfini. [NLT: 'pagePreferences' is not defined] (PreferencesTab, TournamentPage: 4189)



Browser: Microsoft Internet Explorer
Browser Code Name: Mozilla
Browser Language: fr
Browser Minor Version: 0
Browser Version: 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30)
Cookies Enabled: true
CPU Class: x86
Date: 10:20:27 pm 12/26/2007
DB File: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5\db/td.db
DB Folder: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5\db
Home: C:\Program Files\The Tournament Director 2.5
JScript Build: 5730
JScript Version: 5.7
Media Player Version: 10.0.0.4036
Online: true
Platform: Win32
System Language: fr
TD Version: 2.5.b2
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30)
User Language: fr

Then when I restart TD the change of language is well set.

Good continuation.
Cordially,
NLT

That is a bug in the 2.5 beta, thank you for reporting it.  In the future, when you receive an actual program error (and not something that you simply need some help with), would you mind emailing it to support@thetournamentdirector.net, like the error dialog suggests?  While others reading the forums would certainly help in using the software, no one but myself can debug the code and give you specific help about it.  Like, in this case, this is definitely a bug, but it will not affect anything.  After you receive this error, just close the Settings dialog and re-open it, and everything should be in shown in the newly selected language.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on December 26, 2007, 07:40:37 PM
Quote
I want the contents of a cell to change with 40 seconds to go in a break.  I can do that, but setting the conditions to be all breaks & time <= 40 also changes the cell contents in rounds as well.

Hmmm . . . seems like it should work, wondering if your default property group is taking priority for some reason.  I would have to try this myself.  I'll try it sometime soon.

Quote
Quote
3.  You can easily assign points for top 8, regardless of what prizes are.  I am trying to figure out why you want to make points a prize - so they can be displayed in the prizes token?  Could you explain why you want to assign points as a prize?

Why not?  The issue is that you can't specify a non-monetary prize without also giving some percentage of the pot.  I can overcome that by setting the prize to be 0.01% (effectively zero, especially with rounding), but TD treats that as a ranked monetary prize.

Why not? because a decent option is to assign points for rank - can be done easily in points for playing (say, if(r=8, 3,0) gives 3 points for 8th place)- without making it a prize designated points.

Also not quite understanding why you can't assign a non-monetary prize with out giving a percentage of the pot.  Set prize to rank and put in the rank (say 8 ), then set prize to non-monetary and stick the points (say 3) in the points area for whatever rank you want to give the points too (still think it works better to just put the points for whatever rank in the points for playing area with a formula).

I guess we should move this thread out of the beta forum section and to the general help me area.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on December 26, 2007, 08:27:38 PM
Quote
I want the contents of a cell to change with 40 seconds to go in a break.  I can do that, but setting the conditions to be all breaks & time <= 40 also changes the cell contents in rounds as well.

Hmmm . . . seems like it should work, wondering if your default property group is taking priority for some reason.  I would have to try this myself.  I'll try it sometime soon.

Quote
Quote
3.  You can easily assign points for top 8, regardless of what prizes are.  I am trying to figure out why you want to make points a prize - so they can be displayed in the prizes token?  Could you explain why you want to assign points as a prize?

Why not?  The issue is that you can't specify a non-monetary prize without also giving some percentage of the pot.  I can overcome that by setting the prize to be 0.01% (effectively zero, especially with rounding), but TD treats that as a ranked monetary prize.

Why not? because a decent option is to assign points for rank - can be done easily in points for playing (say, if(r=8, 3,0) gives 3 points for 8th place)- without making it a prize designated points.

Also not quite understanding why you can't assign a non-monetary prize with out giving a percentage of the pot.  Set prize to rank and put in the rank (say 8 ), then set prize to non-monetary and stick the points (say 3) in the points area for whatever rank you want to give the points too (still think it works better to just put the points for whatever rank in the points for playing area with a formula).

Ok, I had tried awarding a percentage of 0% and a fixed amount of $0, neither of which work.  Awarding coal still is counted as in the money.  Maybe it's possible to have that changed?

Quote
I guess we should move this thread out of the beta forum section and to the general help me area.

I'll post another potential bug then.

When I load a tournament, the rounding setting seems to be reset to no rounding, instead of whatever setting was there when the tournament was saved.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 30, 2007, 12:20:03 PM
Quote
I want the contents of a cell to change with 40 seconds to go in a break.  I can do that, but setting the conditions to be all breaks & time <= 40 also changes the cell contents in rounds as well.

Hmmm . . . seems like it should work, wondering if your default property group is taking priority for some reason.  I would have to try this myself.  I'll try it sometime soon.

Quote
Quote
3.  You can easily assign points for top 8, regardless of what prizes are.  I am trying to figure out why you want to make points a prize - so they can be displayed in the prizes token?  Could you explain why you want to assign points as a prize?

Why not?  The issue is that you can't specify a non-monetary prize without also giving some percentage of the pot.  I can overcome that by setting the prize to be 0.01% (effectively zero, especially with rounding), but TD treats that as a ranked monetary prize.

Why not? because a decent option is to assign points for rank - can be done easily in points for playing (say, if(r=8, 3,0) gives 3 points for 8th place)- without making it a prize designated points.

Also not quite understanding why you can't assign a non-monetary prize with out giving a percentage of the pot.  Set prize to rank and put in the rank (say 8 ), then set prize to non-monetary and stick the points (say 3) in the points area for whatever rank you want to give the points too (still think it works better to just put the points for whatever rank in the points for playing area with a formula).

Ok, I had tried awarding a percentage of 0% and a fixed amount of $0, neither of which work.  Awarding coal still is counted as in the money.  Maybe it's possible to have that changed?

The "amount" of a prize has no affect on the player receiving the prize being "in the money".  A player is "in the money" if they are awarded a prize that has the Recipient aspect set to a specific Rank.  This is how a typical tournament works.  Usually, there are prizes for 1st place through nth place, and there may be "peripheral" prizes, such as prizes for busting a specific player out (a bounty prize), or prizes for best hand, worst hand, etc.  Players who win the peripheral prizes should not be counted as "in the money", regardless of what the prize actually was (maybe an item, maybe money from the pot, who knows?), because "in the money" generally refers to a player who ranked high enough to win one of the 1st place through nth place prizes.  Because you can set prizes up in any way you want, you may not actually have prizes for players ranked 1st through nth.  The TD does the best it can to determine who is "in the money" by simply using the fact that a player was awarded a prize whose recipient was designated by achieving a specific rank.

Quote
Quote
I guess we should move this thread out of the beta forum section and to the general help me area.

I'll post another potential bug then.

When I load a tournament, the rounding setting seems to be reset to no rounding, instead of whatever setting was there when the tournament was saved.

I think you're right.  Looks like it was only "Round down" that was flubbed.  When round down is selected, it is reset to "don't round" when the tournament or prizes template is loaded.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 30, 2007, 12:40:09 PM
A couple points/questions:

1) Is it possible to display event messages anywhere but centered?  I can display status messages at the bottom of the screen, but not event messages.  Unfortunately this means in my layout that the event messages cover up the blinds, instead of the non-important stuff toward the bottom.

2) It seems the Conditions options for a layout cell don't differentiate between breaks and rounds.  A condition that should only be ture in the last 40 seconds of a break also occurs during a round.  I can work around it fine, but it seems to be an issue unless I'm missing something (quite possible).

Looks like a bug.  I'll put it on the list.

Quote
3) Is there a way to assign points via the prizes and not have the prize be considered as "in the money"?  I want to give points to the Top 8, but not have my in the money sound trigger until we actually get to the prizes (top 3 or 4 normally).

4) Would it be possible to also have an option on the table movement dialog to display the seating chart instead of the table movement dialog, and if I can get greedy to have the players moving be highlighted somehow?  Since we don't show seat numbers, it would be easier to say to someone that you are now sitting between these two players.

I like this.  I think I'll be adding a "condition" to the tournament that allows you to determine when the last seating change occurred.  You could then create a screen set that displayed only during the N number of seconds after a screen change, so you could have the TD automatically display whatever screen(s) you wanted immediately after a screen change.

The highlighting I like, too.  I'll put these on the to-do list.

Quote
Thanks Corey.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on December 30, 2007, 06:03:39 PM

The "amount" of a prize has no affect on the player receiving the prize being "in the money".  A player is "in the money" if they are awarded a prize that has the Recipient aspect set to a specific Rank.  This is how a typical tournament works.  Usually, there are prizes for 1st place through nth place, and there may be "peripheral" prizes, such as prizes for busting a specific player out (a bounty prize), or prizes for best hand, worst hand, etc.  Players who win the peripheral prizes should not be counted as "in the money", regardless of what the prize actually was (maybe an item, maybe money from the pot, who knows?), because "in the money" generally refers to a player who ranked high enough to win one of the 1st place through nth place prizes.  Because you can set prizes up in any way you want, you may not actually have prizes for players ranked 1st through nth.  The TD does the best it can to determine who is "in the money" by simply using the fact that a player was awarded a prize whose recipient was designated by achieving a specific rank.

Would it be possible to allow you to create a prize that awards nothing but points? Now, if you want points you have to also specify money or "something else" as well.

I was trying to avoid using the points for playing dialog for... well no good reason I suppose.

If not, the world will not end.

And thanks again for looking in to the other stuff.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 30, 2007, 06:34:30 PM
When you select the prize "Amount" to be "Non-monetary", the prize doesn't award anything.  That's basically saying "When this prize is awarded, don't give the recipient anything from the pot".  For any prize amount type (percentage, fixed, or non-monetary), you can add points to the prize.  So, it sounds to me like a "non-monetary" prize amount, with the points attribute set to some value, is exactly what you are asking for.  Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on December 30, 2007, 06:39:30 PM
When you select the prize "Amount" to be "Non-monetary", the prize doesn't award anything.  That's basically saying "When this prize is awarded, don't give the recipient anything from the pot".  For any prize amount type (percentage, fixed, or non-monetary), you can add points to the prize.  So, it sounds to me like a "non-monetary" prize amount, with the points attribute set to some value, is exactly what you are asking for.  Or am I missing something?

My issue is that is still considered as "in the money", presumably because they are getting "something".  I would like, if possible, that you be allowed to specify for example that 8th place gets 1 point (not including buy-in points and such) but nothing monetary or non-monetary, and that not count as "in the money".
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on December 31, 2007, 09:49:05 AM
I see.  Nope, can't do that with prizes.  As I explained, because the prizes are as flexible as they are, it's difficult for the TD to determine who is "in the money", so it has to go by "ranked" prizes.  I would suggest (this might have already been suggested to you) that you award points like these using the Points for Playing formula.
Title: Thanks Corey
Post by: UPT on January 03, 2008, 10:46:23 PM
Thanks for the great holiday treat... we have been waiting for this for a long time :)

It really makes things "look" so much better.

No real problems here... I'll let ya know.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 08, 2008, 01:28:55 PM
How are hot keys working for others with 2.5 beta2?

I can't bring up screens by using the usual hotkeys 1,2,3,4, etc and I can't start or stop the tourney clock with the spacebar.

Am I missing something?

I can access the screens and start/stop clock with the control tab, but not with hotkeys.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 08, 2008, 02:54:56 PM
How are hot keys working for others with 2.5 beta2?

I can't bring up screens by using the usual hotkeys 1,2,3,4, etc and I can't start or stop the tourney clock with the spacebar.

Am I missing something?

I can access the screens and start/stop clock with the control tab, but not with hotkeys.

Not sure if I mentioned this already (this will be in the user manual), but hotkey usage has changed, but only a little bit.  Well, it just had to be more strictly defined.  May not have anything to do with what you are experiencing.

Specifically, hotkeys now work as follows:
- All hotkeys should be active when the Game window is in focus (when the Settings window is closed)
- When the Settings window is open, only hotkeys assigned to function keys (F1 through F12) are active (otherwise they would interfere with configuration input)
- When the Settings window is open and the Controls tab is selected (only), all hotkeys should be active
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 08, 2008, 03:42:55 PM
O.K., surprised I didn't run into that.

This did work as you mention and that is great - all that is needed - thanks.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 08, 2008, 04:16:30 PM
O.K., still playing around with 2.5beta2.

Now, working on my PC with dual monitor video card and extended screen.  I can have tourney main screen on one monitor, the settings screen on another.  All is good.

But when I try to move the main screen to my extended monitor, just to switch things around (for no good reason), the main tourney screen disappears (I can still put the settings screen on either monitor).  If I move it back, then it is all fine again.

Recently when I tried this, part of the main screen actually did show up on the extended monitor, but it was partially off the extended screen and I couldn't move it to fit the screen (I think something goofy was happening that time - I can't recreate that).

I will try to attach a couple pictures of the 2 states above.

Not really a problem (although I will have to try  this on my laptop to my splitter to see if it is problem there that will limit where I can send the main screen which obviously has to get off the laptop and onto my monitors).
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 09, 2008, 02:15:12 PM
I think I'll add an option for you to place the main window at the coordinates you choose.  In my testing, all I could really do is code it to work on the extended display that I have, and the others that I've seen.  Based on what you've written, I have to assume yours works differently.  In any case, the moving of the main window feature was added only because my personal PC with an extended display doesn't have a tool for moving windows between the displays, although most (all?) others I have seen do.

Actually, can you perform a test for me?  On the Preferences tab, select the option "Save dialog locations".  Make sure the option "Open dialogs on the main screen" on the Extended Screen dialog isn't checked.  Then, press the Config Files button (still on the Preferences tab) to open that dialog.  Move the dialog to your extended display, and then close the dialog.  Press the Config Files button again and verify that it opens in the same location on your extended display.  Close the dialog, and exit the TD.  Then send me your "prefs.sav" file (in the folder in which the TD is installed).  Might shed some light on this.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 09, 2008, 08:39:06 PM
I will give that a try tomorrow for you.  In the mean time I figured out one thing.

On my display settings (right click desktop, properties, settings tab), if I change which monitor is my primary monitor, then the main tourney screen will show up on that screen (and I can move the settings screen to the other).  So, I can manage where the tourney screen is by changing which monitor is my primary monitor.

But, again, when I click on "move to extended monitor" on the TD preferences tab for extended monitor, the main screen disappears.

One goofy side effect of this is that if the main tourney screen is gone and I then close TD settings window, it appears as if TD is frozen because the program icon is still on the bottom of the screen, but if I click on it to "restore" the program, it won't do that.  Of course, if I hit "esc", it brings back the settings screen.

But, what I find interesting about this is that the first time I did it, I thought that TD had frozen, so I did a ctrl-alt-del to end the program, and TD didn't show up on the application list (?).
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 10, 2008, 10:11:56 AM
If the main window is minimized, or possibly off-screen as is your case, and there is a dialog window open somewhere, it will appear as if the app is frozen until you press ESC, which closes the dialog.

For example, with the TD in window mode (not full-screen mode), make some change so that if you try to exit, you'll get prompted to save the tournament.  Close the Settings window and then minimize the main window.  Now right-click on the TD in the Windows Taskbar and select "Close".  Now you won't be able to get the TD to "restore" from minimized state.  The problem is the TD opened the dialog prompting you to save the current tournament, but with the entire app minimize, the dialog didn't show up, but it's still there.  You have to answer Yes or No to get past the dialog (pressing Y or N will work), and the easiest way to do this is to press ESC.

The Tournament Director is hosted inside of Internet Explorer, so you won't see "Tournament Director" in the process list.  Instead you'll see "mshta.exe".  Why nothing shows up in the Applications list I have no idea.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Guapo on January 11, 2008, 07:24:24 AM
Hello,

I have not had time to read all the replies here but I just wanted to let you know I used this Beta version in my Poker club for 80 people last Friday night, the most important item for me is the multi monitor aspect as I have a Plasma showing the "customer information" whilst the data entry is done on a separate pc within the kiosk/office area where people sign up.
I has tested it a few days before and no problems so that made me decide to use it on the tournament night, however just before we started the tournament I was unable to get the "Tournament Screen" to stay on the Plasma and every time I used ESC it would come back onto the office PC, I uninstalled the app and reinstalled but the problem still remained, time was of the essence so I quickly reverted back to the Plasma mirror imaging the PC (Which is how I have used the non BETA SW for last year) It just means I keep having to either turn the Plasma off when updating any confidential data or allow the customers to see what is going on !

Can't really give you any more feedback than this yet as the SW has been in use every night (BETA) all seems stable apart from the issue mentioned above.
We have an even bigger tournament tonight so I will have another try to see if I can sort the screen issues out first - but would you have any advice for me, does the instal make any changes to the PC which remain even after install/reinstall. Sorry for the somewhat abbreviated post and lack of info
Many Thanks
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 11, 2008, 10:24:28 AM
Uninstalling / re-installing won't have any effect.

Are you saying that you've placed the Game window (tournament screen) on your extended display, but when you press ESC to open the Settings window, the Game window suddenly jumps over to the PC display?  That would be a new one.  If that's happening, the only thing I can think to do is to have the TD try to move the Game window to its "previous" location each time you open the Settings window, just in case this weird situation occurs.  But I'd be reluctant to do that given that it could cause problems for other users.

The only workaround I can suggest is: don't close the Settings window.  There's no reason, as far as the TD goes, that you can't just leave it open all the time.  You may have other reasons, I guess, but as far as the TD is concerned, it can stay open the whole time.  On the Preferences tab, uncheck the option "Auto-close Settings dialog".  That way if you use the Hotkeys or the main buttons to display one of the Player Rankings/Seating Chart/etc pages the Settings window won't close.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 11, 2008, 12:55:17 PM
Corey, FWIW, I haven't done what you asked me to try on my desktop PC where I had some extended monitor issues (only trying to swap which monitor held the tourney screen).

But . . .

I also just installed 2.5beta2 on my new laptop running XP (2.2ghz core duo, 2gb ram) and ran a mock tourney using a monitor attached to the laptop with the stand alone monitor acting as an extended screen and laptop as the main monitor. 

I was able to send the tourney screen to my "extended monitor" and the settings screen was on the laptop.

Mock tourney was 2 table game with about 16 people.  Busted everyone out and completed tourney.

I didn't have any problems with the tourney and everything acted as I expected to.  No computer slowing (understanding I just ran through a few rounds, but I did bust everyone out).  I may now try to run my live tourneys with this version. 8) 8)

Also FWIW, I was using a 4:3 aspect monitor and I have a widescreen laptop . . . but as long as I set both monitors to 1024x768 then I get the proper resolution of TD on both monitors (just some blank areas to the left and right of the TD program on the laptop.  You may remember that I was worried about how this would work with different aspect monitors.

My only comments (more in line with "suggestions" so they might be feature requests):


Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 14, 2008, 10:29:20 AM
  • The only way I could close TD was to go to the game tab and click on exit.  This is because when I close the settings screen using the "x" button, I cannot access . . . . . ooops, I was going to say I couldn't move the mouse to that extended screen to close the tourney screen, but I guess I could have, its just that the extended monitor was 10 feet in front of me to my left and I forgot that I set up the extended screen to the default "position" directly to the right of the laptop monitor . . . so I guess if I would have slid the mouse arrow to the right off of the laptop monitor it would have gone to the other monitor . . . duh ::).  Forget this comment.
  • On the control tab, there is a button to "set the clock".  It would be awfully nice if you could bring back the drop down list for the hours/minutes/seconds to choose the time you want to set it to the way it used to be when you would set the time using the hotkey in previous version.  Having to change the defaul round time to say 10 seconds (or whatever) seems to require a lot of mouse movement and keying to delete numbers that are there or replace the existing numbers with something else.  I use this function to test events and also in tourneys when I need to adjust the time for some reason

Sure, but I actually changed this because I thought the other "select-list" version was cumbersome.  I put a lot of work into the new control to make it easy to use.  You can move back and forth throw the input using tab and shift-tab, or by using the cursor keys.  Moving up and down with the cursor keys also changes the values.

If the old way was better, I'm definitely for making it as easy to use as possible.

Quote
  • Any chance of making the box that surrounds "bust out" on the control screen bigger or bold or something?  It is the button I probably use most during a tourney and it would nice if it could kinda be a focal point (I know, I know, others might not think this is the most important button on the page or are as far sighted as I am :-\)

This is a good point, and I actually did put some thought into it.  If you right-click on the page in any of the various sections, you'll see that you can modify the colors for the section.  I wanted to have a way to make it easy for someone to navigate through the many, many buttons on that tab.  I didn't go so far as to allow this type of highlighting on a per-control basis, but I did consider highlighting a few buttons - the ones I thought would be most used.  But I also don't want to go overboard.

I think maybe highlighting these: "Pause/unpause clock", "Buy-in", "Rebuy", "Add-on", and "Bust-out".

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: The_Duke on January 14, 2008, 03:40:33 PM
A bit late, but had to attend some other important things here that kept me away from here.
But your last comment of sending TD to a plasma has interest to me as I will soon run into that situation.
Why couldn't you send V2.4.3 to a plasma TV (since I will probably be using 2.4.3 for a good bit of time until 2.5 is well established)?
Offcourse every program can be send out, but..
1. I just don't like to switch screens for settings, buy-ins and all other stuff on the same screen that players are viewing. I want them to read the houserules in PRE tournament state and not seeying me click on a buy-in.
2. Some little problems (might have to do with my widescreen display and using 4:3 playerscreens). When switching back and forth between settings and playerscreens sometimes the screen ratio gets screwed up. So when using the dual monitor option this problem is instantly solved ;)

I would be interested to know what problems you anticipate as I may be called over to my neighbors to run a tourney and also don't want to haul any monitors, but I know he has a big plasma TV.   I was planning on just bringing a VGA cable and do what I usually do or possibly bring an S-video cable just to try out that connection type just in case I need to do that in the future.
Interested to know what issues you have had/anticipate with V2.4.3
There aren't many problems to solve but i suggest testing your external video connector because every video card has it's own strange behaviours when using the 2nd output.

You have to play around with the "exent desktop" setting, because it is the combination of computer/plasma resolutions that will decide for you what setting is best. When you consider you have to deal with 2 resolutions and at least 3 settings concerning widescreen options; then you'll understand there are 12 combinations available; and only 1 of them will give you a fullscreen resolution without strange stretch effects on your plasma or lcd.
I have to install a non official ATI driver if i want to run external screen on a choice for 4:3 or 16:9 resolution. If i would use the standard ATI drivers i could not set 16:9 for external resolution...

Offcourse HDMI, DMI, VGA and such are the best for quality. But S-video is also fine for stuff like this. S-video is not very detailed but playerscreens usaly don't need such high detail and every TV,LCD, Plasma can handle this.

Tip for plasma: Alltough i have a good quality plasma and one of the newest models. Still i make the brightness a bit low when displaying this program. Burn-in on plasma's is still something to consider and better be save then sorry.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 14, 2008, 07:14:04 PM
thanks Duke.

And Corey . . . re: the "set clock" dialog.  On the laptop I was using I didn't notice that the hours:minutes:seconds fields were shaded a bit (like fields might be), which might have clued me into the idea that cursor keys would change them.

<br>

Excellent
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 14, 2008, 09:47:46 PM
Another beta question (brought up in another thread)

Could the control tab include a button in the clock area to bring up an instance of the hand timer (maybe each time you click the button it brings up another hand timer?

I would like to second the request for having a minute adjust control to add minutes as well as seconds (because in theory I will use the hand timer to time penaly time outs, although I haven't used this yet - I am sure I will).

Also, I thought that in 2.4.3 you could have multiple instances of the hand timer all going at once.  I tried to use the hot key for the hand timer in 2.5beta2 and can only bring up one timer.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 15, 2008, 12:50:56 PM
I'll put this stuff on the to-do list.

You most definitely can have multiple hand-timers going.  You're probably experiencing a "focus" issue.  Hit H and the hand timer comes up.  The hand timer window will now have focus, and the hotkeys aren't "hot" on the hand timer window.  You'll have to click or alt-tab back to the main TD window first.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 15, 2008, 01:29:00 PM
Yes, Corey, you are correct about the focus issue (another "duh" moment, . . . of many).  It works fine to bring up multiple instances with the hot key.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: DragonII on January 15, 2008, 03:23:35 PM
Good idea!

And also i want have network support too, but seem its hard for Corey to make it?

Due example a other PC at entrance can take $ and let them put paid player, other PC (the main + server) will noticed it and can put them on list before random seating (or auto seating). I dunno if it is possible to have 2 PC at same time?
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: UPT on January 15, 2008, 10:11:04 PM
Corey any chance of having some more items on the setttings "controls" page... maybe have the ability to add some things like add the game name to the clock or level area.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 16, 2008, 10:09:30 AM
Are you suggesting adding a button to modify the layout?

If that's the case, then no, I won't add that because it isn't what the Controls tab is about.  Notice that the Controls tab has buttons on it that, for the most part, are all accomplished by a hotkey or a context-menu item on the Game window (Tournament screen/Player Rankings screen/etc).  Other actions that are accomplished on other tabs of the Settings window can be done by going to that tab on the Settings window.  The point of the Controls tab is to for a typical host to be able to run the entire tournament from that screen.  I'm happy to add controls that make sense, but as there are already a lot of controls on that screen, I'm going to be pretty picky about what I'll add.  If you can move to another tab and accomplish it, it *probably* doesn't belong there.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: winch on January 16, 2008, 10:22:00 AM
An another question : Is it possible to have an option in event tab to change the location by default to tournament locations because it's only for stat for the moment.
I put all my tdt file in an another directory and every time i must to search in my browser.
Tks for you're response.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 16, 2008, 03:25:18 PM
Can you be more specific?  I'm really not sure what you are asking.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: UPT on January 16, 2008, 07:28:07 PM
No Corey that was not what I was talking about.

I was talking about information... not a button. I am asking if we can have the "Game" being one of the items displayed on that page, perhaps in the clock section. In a HORSE tournament I need to know, on that screen, what game we are playing.

Other info I would love having on this screen is:

Current Blinds/Antes (Level Section)

Time until break (Clock Section)

Elapsed Time (Tournament Section)

Players until the money (Players section)
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 16, 2008, 08:28:07 PM
I will only comment that I think at least having the blinds on the control tab could be useful - not critical for me though.  The information is quite quickly available from the rounds tab where there is an arrow pointing to the current round and what the blinds are.  When I am focused on the laptop I can't see the tourney screen (its actually behind me then) - so there could be minimal benefit to me for it to be on the control panel - but I guess when I think about it maybe not that much.

I care less about clocks for the control tab, because I can see the tourney clock time on the settings page and I have sound events for end of rounds and that cues me into an imminent round change.  UPT, do you have the miniclock set to be displayed on the settings page (on the preferences tab)??

Players till money and other things that aren't critical to know right away and are essentially available on the players tab are less critical for me on the control tab as well.  I could always bring up the player rankings page easily from the control tab to see that too (I have a screen set though that brings up the player rankings page for a short time each round - so the players should be aware of what's going on and I catch it as well).

What the current game is could be useful - but again, it is on the rounds tab. - so pretty accessible from the settings page.

I hope that I finally get that horse game going that I have been trying to push for without a lot of success.  :)
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: UPT on January 16, 2008, 08:40:24 PM
I cannot see the main screen easily from the computer with the dual screen setup.

This type of information is what this "all in one screen" is about, IMO.

Just trying to help improve the software from a real world point of view, I have run over 1300 tournaments in the last three years using the TD and love the power of this great tool.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 16, 2008, 09:42:09 PM
don't get me wrong, I am agreeing with you on some of your points.

I run quite a few tourneys as well (not 1300 :o !!!) , and also cannot see the main screen (easily) at least while I am doing operations on the settings page and my focus is there.  It is actually an unexpected consequence of having the dual screen thing that I didn't think of - that I would lose access to the tourney screen for a bit - something I noticed right away, but still prefer having the control tab tools.

I am thinking that it also will be important for that control tab to not be too cluttered with every control possible and piece of information, otherwise it will be harder for me to access what I need quickly (and I am often a dedicated dealer as well, so I have to make quick actions and get back to dealing).

I am just thrilled to have the major tools at my finger tips with less reliance on hotkeys.  Always a tough balance I am sure for the programmer to meet everyone's needs  :-\

I for one would be very interested in how you set up your rounds/layout for your HORSE game/tourney and hope you consider posting it in the templates area - sounds like you have more experience than most of us.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: UPT on January 16, 2008, 10:13:06 PM
When asking for a pony always ask for the saddle :)

Bottom line is I would love certainly the "Game" on this screen.. I agree about cluttering this area up.

I also posted my HORSE.trt in the templates area.

PS.. all posting done while running a tournament.. loving the beta.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: winch on January 17, 2008, 03:46:29 AM
Yes Corey, i explain, when you load file tdt on game tab, by default tournament director open tounament 'saves' directory. In Preference tab an config files option tou can change
an load a default tournamen in an another directory. But i would like to know if is ti possible to open a directory by default and not a file ?

because i have a lot of tdt file in fonction of which tournement i do.

Tks for your response
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 17, 2008, 10:06:29 AM
No Corey that was not what I was talking about.

I was talking about information... not a button. I am asking if we can have the "Game" being one of the items displayed on that page, perhaps in the clock section. In a HORSE tournament I need to know, on that screen, what game we are playing.

Other info I would love having on this screen is:

Current Blinds/Antes (Level Section)

Time until break (Clock Section)

Elapsed Time (Tournament Section)

Players until the money (Players section)

Ah-ha.  Yeah, I obviously didn't understand what you were asking.  I think this info (at least some of it anyway) would be useful.  Let me see what I can do.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 17, 2008, 10:12:15 AM
Yes Corey, i explain, when you load file tdt on game tab, by default tournament director open tounament 'saves' directory. In Preference tab an config files option tou can change
an load a default tournamen in an another directory. But i would like to know if is ti possible to open a directory by default and not a file ?

because i have a lot of tdt file in fonction of which tournement i do.

Tks for your response

I am still not quite certain I understand, but I will give this a shot...

The "Load" button on the Game tab always defaults to the "saves" folder.  That is just the way it is.  But after you load a tournament, the "Load" button will always go to the last folder you loaded a tournament from.

The "Tournament File Locations" preference [on the Preferences tab] tells the Stats where you have tournament files that you want included in the stats calculations.  It does not have anything to do with the "Load" button on the Game tab.

When you add or modify a "Tournament File Location", the program shows a "File" dialog for you to choose a tournament file.  This is just an unfortunate shortcoming of the program.  If I could, I would display a "Folder" dialog, allowing you to choose a folder, but this type of dialog is simply not available to me.  So I have to resort to a File dialog.  You choose a file, and the program uses the folder of the file chosen.  Presumably you are selecting a folder where you have saved tournament files, so choosing a tournament file should not be that inconvenient.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 22, 2008, 11:12:14 AM
Rounding reset:

Corey, I know that you mentioned that the current beta has a problem that the prize rounding (for round down anyway) get reset to no rounding for any newly opened tourney.

Is this controlled by the XML prize suggestions file in some manner?  I can't see that it is, but I don't know XML . . . well I am able to make my own prize suggestions template that I use automatically, but I am running into this rounding problem and didn't know if it is a program issue, or something I can solve with my XML template.

No rush, I just am forgetting to reset the rounding and if it something I can fix myself . . . .

Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 22, 2008, 03:35:46 PM
Nope, it's coded that way, unfortunately.
Title: First Tournament Using Beta
Post by: T-Bone on January 26, 2008, 08:18:52 AM
Ran first tournament using the 2.5 beta 2 last night. Everything went swimmingly with the exception of the round down reset problem rendering any stats re prize monies won meaningless. Hope this is on the to-do list. Don't know how I would do all the cool things I do when running tournaments without this software!
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 26, 2008, 08:28:08 AM
But I am quite sure even in this beta version that once you have set up a tourney and set up the prizes with round down that it will retain that round down (unless you close the tourney and open it again).

You will just have to reset the round down each time you start a new tournament. (go to prizes and to the rounding tab).
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: T-Bone on January 26, 2008, 09:25:46 AM
But I am quite sure even in this beta version that once you have set up a tourney and set up the prizes with round down that it will retain that round down (unless you close the tourney and open it again).

You will just have to reset the round down each time you start a new tournament. (go to prizes and to the rounding tab).

True. However, when I save the tournament(s) and run stats from the default tournament page (without reopening) the round down has been reset so I get reports with prizes like $251.20, etc.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: tandemrx on January 26, 2008, 09:35:22 AM
oops, haven't gotten that far along in the beta version and now I notice that it does doe that for my stats as well (although I am still using 2.4.3 as my major version and if you run stats using that version then the rounding works).  So a workaround is to load 2.4.3 and at least use that for your stats (?).
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: T-Bone on January 26, 2008, 11:35:52 AM
oops, haven't gotten that far along in the beta version and now I notice that it does doe that for my stats as well (although I am still using 2.4.3 as my major version and if you run stats using that version then the rounding works).  So a workaround is to load 2.4.3 and at least use that for your stats (?).

Can do. At least it wasn't just me! Thanks.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: MattBurlew on January 26, 2008, 12:25:14 PM
What I did is just manually overrode the prize amounts.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 26, 2008, 05:10:15 PM
The rounding problem has already been fixed, I just haven't released a new beta yet.  Sorry this is causing such a headache for you.  I'll see if I can get another beta out soon.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: brewdawg on January 29, 2008, 10:53:54 AM
Ran my first tournament of 2008 with the beta2 software and have to say it made life a lot easier.  One of the only things that would have been nice to have was during the buy-ins.  I had most of the players already in the list, but of course there were some stragglers that didn't RSVP and some other guys that just showed up.  It would have been nice to be able to keep the buy-in open and click an 'Add' or 'New' button from there and add a player to the tournament or add a new player, without having to close buy-in window.  Not even sure if it would be possible to do it, just stating that it was the only real thing that made me think: "I really wish TD could do this..."
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on January 29, 2008, 12:08:03 PM
Maybe I can add a button on the Add Players dialog to switch to the Buy-in Players dialog, and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: T-Bone on February 07, 2008, 05:37:52 AM
The rounding problem has already been fixed, I just haven't released a new beta yet.  Sorry this is causing such a headache for you.  I'll see if I can get another beta out soon.

Hey, Corey, I know it's Chinese New Year & we just celebrated Mardis Gras but any chance new beta will be released soon? Like, before my tournament tomorrow night!   ;D
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on February 07, 2008, 10:45:19 AM
Working on it .... I would definitely like to get it out tonight, because if I don't it won't happen until next week.  I spent time last night cleaning it up for release, but it's not quite there yet...
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: UPT on February 07, 2008, 10:49:05 PM
:)
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on February 08, 2008, 09:56:56 AM
Sorry, looks like it didn't make it.  Some of the newer code had problems with error reporting (IE just stopped reporting errors on the new code for some reason), and last night I figured out why - well, how to work around it anyway.  This is crucial, especially in beta software and especially around new code.  Unless a miracle happens, looks like it will be next week.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: T-Bone on February 08, 2008, 10:42:35 AM
Hey, man, you took a shot. Gives me something to look forward to.
Title: Re: Version 2.5 beta 2
Post by: Corey Cooper on February 08, 2008, 03:34:41 PM
I spoke too soon.  Beta 3 has been posted.